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Which Clubs use modified PY numbers

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transient View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 13 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by marke



Last year for the first time the PYS data was bigger than the excel return.  The long term ambition should be for the PYS to take over completely as the mechanism for recording performance which can then be used both for a club's local analysis and the national analysis.

Please try to encourage whoever drew the short straw at your club to do the PY return via the PYS - give them my email if they have any questions.

Mark


Marke, would you say the number of clubs submitting data (in whatever form) has increased in the last couple of years?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote marke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 13 at 10:15pm
OK one post for several questions.

Tom - get the sailwave files and then look for the option in sailwave to submit to PYS and it does it for you.  I'm not an expert on the sailwave submission as we deliver directly from our database.  However there are a lot of posters on this forum that submit a lot of data via sailwave who will be able to help.

RS400 - the analysis of the PY returns only uses the PY used at the club to decide which competitors should be excluded for poor performance (we are looking for competent performances for the analysis).  Once that is done we are only interested in the elapsed time, no.of laps etc. for each competitor to calculate the "sailed to" PY.  Look at the YR2 algorithm documentation for an explanation.  Its done slightly differently from that - but essentially it is a similar scheme

Transient - the amount of data submitted to PYS has increased dramatically in the last two years.  I don't have the digests with me to check the growth, but it was very significant (more than double if I remember correctly).  I don't think the overall number of clubs returning changed that much but was still up a bit - I don't think we expected that to increase a lot, but the more clubs that submit via PYS the better.  It was very noticeable how many of the biggest and/or most active racing clubs had switched to using the PYS.

Mark


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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 13 at 11:01pm
Tom, you need to talk to Andy Wibroe at the RYA and get your club registered on the PYS site. They will give you a club membership number and password to access the system. You can then either add whole series by simply uploading your sailwave .blw files or in sailwave you can go through the pys upload options to do it from sailwave (you need your club membership id for this).
Top tips - 1. Make sure your class names tie up with the official PY list names!
2. If you have changed someones handicap for a particular race due to sailing a different boat for example then you need to rebuild your sailwave file to insert a seperate line entry for the boat they were actually sailing.
3. Use the rename function on the pys site to tidy up any misnamings
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 13 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by marke

.....
RS400 - the analysis of the PY returns only uses the PY used at the club to decide which competitors should be excluded for poor performance (we are looking for competent performances for the analysis).  Once that is done we are only interested in the elapsed time, no.of laps etc. for each competitor to calculate the "sailed to" PY.  Look at the YR2 algorithm documentation for an explanation.  Its done slightly differently from that - but essentially it is a similar scheme

......

Mark



But how do you know what an elapsed time should be for say a PY of 1000, if you have nothing valid to reference it against? If I'm racing against Merlins with a Hayling number, how do you know what Portsmouth Number I have sailed to?
I find the glossing over of the process, and the fact that it is hidden from the general competitors, only available to those with logins 'representing a club' deeply unhelpful.
As someone with a numerate degree and a qualification in stats, I would point out that our sailing sec is more secretarial than actuarial, basically all this stuff is beyond them.
Given the standard of the last RYA comic, with confusion between CO and CO2, there is little cause for hope when accuracy is key.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote marke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 13 at 1:06am
Sorry - tried to be polite and helpful - last post here over and out

If anyone has any questions and is interested in the answer just PM me.


Edited by marke - 04 Sep 13 at 1:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 13 at 8:25am
There's nothing secret about any of the PY process, but as a practical point the RYA lack the staff numbers to engage in dialogues with everyone who wants to whinge about their PY No. The restriction on people 'representing' seems to be as good a way as any to give clubs support without being buried in other calls, which would mean no support for the clubs.

There are loads of broadcast public comms about how it all works. Nothing is missed out. When they co-opted me on the PY group there were no surprises. To an extent volunteers provide some extra communications, but its inevitable that sometimes they/we run out of patience.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 13 at 9:12am
Originally posted by marke



Transient - the amount of data submitted to PYS has increased dramatically in the last two years.  I don't have the digests with me to check the growth, but it was very significant (more than double if I remember correctly).  I don't think the overall number of clubs returning changed that much but was still up a bit - I don't think we expected that to increase a lot, but the more clubs that submit via PYS the better.  It was very noticeable how many of the biggest and/or most active racing clubs had switched to using the PYS.

Mark




Thanks for that, sincerely appreciated.

Me thinks the folk doing all the work for us at the RYA PY office are doing a great job and any further improvements in data quality/volume and final accuracy are down to the rest of us i.e. sailors, class assocs and clubs.

Edited by transient - 04 Sep 13 at 9:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 13 at 9:38am
Originally posted by JimC

There's nothing secret about any of the PY process, but as a practical point the RYA lack the staff numbers to engage in dialogues with everyone who wants to whinge about their PY No. The restriction on people 'representing' seems to be as good a way as any to give clubs support without being buried in other calls, which would mean no support for the clubs.

There are loads of broadcast public comms about how it all works. Nothing is missed out. When they co-opted me on the PY group there were no surprises. To an extent volunteers provide some extra communications, but its inevitable that sometimes they/we run out of patience.
 
Please provide links to the algorithms, and worked examples of how this years numbers were generated.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 13 at 9:51am
Originally posted by JimC

but its inevitable that sometimes they/we run out of patience.

It would seem a feeling shared by some of the 'customers' too.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 13 at 12:22pm
every sector has it's fair share of awkward customers. Wink
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