Which Clubs use modified PY numbers

Originally posted by AlexM I enter all the data in for Leigh and Lowton, which we've been doing for two years (ish) I think it has definitely helped that it isn't people from the club amending the numbers but the website which has the backing from the RYA. Stamp of approval Alex

Originally posted by RS400atC HISC do. Not sure how they are worked out though.

They do a calculation all of their own compensating for the tide. I believe Lancing do an adjustment for tide as well although they only use it for certain races.....Tidal flow being a reasonably predictable factor, it makes sense to try and tackle it. Well done to them for giving it a go, not sure if they got it right though?

Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by Rupert Jim, if you adjust for some (where you have the evidence) but boats which were having close racing with the ones you have adjusted (maybe against the run of other results) don't have the numbers to warrent a change, what do you do? Across every class I've ever looked at the finish times in a typical race are in the order of a twenty percent spread, usually more. So if the fleets were having a close race before they will be afterwards if there's a two percent change in relative handicap. No doubt the odd place or two will swap round, but, frankly, who's to tell which way round is correct? The sailors at the front of the fleet will still be at the front, and the sailors who still have plenty of scope for improving will still be in much the same place in the fleet too.

I'm not trying to compare the 20% spread, though. I'm comparing helms who are very close on ability and if sailing the same class will swap positions regularly. If that is happening within the handicap results, and one of the classes is moved reletive to the other, then the balance is destroyed, and at that point 2% is a huge amount. I suppose the answer would be to link the 2 classes on handicap, so the smaller class would change to stay with the numerically bigger one, despite not having enough ruturns of its own. But then you move away from pure numbers.

I'm also still not convinced that most clubs have enough returns not to have personal handicapping coming into play with the changes.

Tom

The MUCH preferred option is that your club submits its data into the online PYS system.  If you use Sailwave, HAL, or a spreadsheet to do the handicap calculations then this is very easy to do - much easier than filling in the excel form and it gives us raw data to use.

I haven't looked at the excel form this year - but last year it asked for the club to provide for each class - the number of individual competitors for that class (i.e. different helms), the number of appearances (i.e. how many races x boats), the PY used at your club, AND the calculated PY based on the elapsed time or the handicappers estimate of what the PY should be.  Again if you use Sailwave, Hal, or a homegrown spreadsheet it should be easy to do (but not as easy as just submitting to the PYS in the first place) - if your results are calculated on the back of fag packet then its not so easy

The two datasets are analysed jointly and separately by the RYA.

Last year for the first time the PYS data was bigger than the excel return.  The long term ambition should be for the PYS to take over completely as the mechanism for recording performance which can then be used both for a club's local analysis and the national analysis.

Please try to encourage whoever drew the short straw at your club to do the PY return via the PYS - give them my email if they have any questions.

Mark

Originally posted by marke Tom The MUCH preferred option is that your club submits its data into the online PYS system.  If you use Sailwave, HAL, or a spreadsheet to do the handicap calculations then this is very easy to do - much easier than filling in the excel form and it gives us raw data to use. I haven't looked at the excel form this year - but last year it asked for the club to provide for each class - the number of individual competitors for that class (i.e. different helms), the number of appearances (i.e. how many races x boats), the PY used at your club, AND the calculated PY based on the elapsed time or the handicappers estimate of what the PY should be.  Again if you use Sailwave, Hal, or a homegrown spreadsheet it should be easy to do (but not as easy as just submitting to the PYS in the first place) - if your results are calculated on the back of fag packet then its not so easy The two datasets are analysed jointly and separately by the RYA. Last year for the first time the PYS data was bigger than the excel return.  The long term ambition should be for the PYS to take over completely as the mechanism for recording performance which can then be used both for a club's local analysis and the national analysis. Please try to encourage whoever drew the short straw at your club to do the PY return via the PYS - give them my email if they have any questions. Mark