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Handicaps and how much difference they make...

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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 13 at 10:13am
Originally posted by slop_idol

its worth having race by race but over a series those that consistently perform well will come through to win, so 40 seconds in a series doesn't have a huge affect on fleet position, just the overall corrected time within the fleet.

exactly- worth having race by race, the last handicap series I did I came around half way up the fleet.

23rd out of 45:

http://www.draycotewater.co.uk/results/2011_spring_wedeve.htm

Nominally I'd be well chuffed with a mid fleet finish- especially given the craft of choice- a Kona Windsurf board!  However I finished every race I entered DFL, ON HANDICAP and on the water.  Really- handicap racing and club series.... what a joke.

Originally posted by iGRF

It's f*cked

Aye- sail a 'fleet boat' and be done with it.  Don't have fleets at your club?  Change clubs to one which does.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 13 at 11:06am
Originally posted by yellowwelly

However I finished every race I entered DFL, ON HANDICAP and on the water.  Really- handicap racing and club series.... what a joke

[Looks up a set of Draycote Solo fleet results]

[Smiles to himself]

In the case of the competitor I made the observation on, he was scoring mid fleet positions and was well above the "places in order of number of DNCs counted" section of the results table.

Edited by JimC - 27 Aug 13 at 11:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 13 at 11:54am
http://sailwave.com/results/Solo-Wed-2013.htm

pray tell what's amusing?  A least this mid fleet series result is based on races where I didn't (always) come last.  Throw in the prevailing wind conditions of Wednesday evening series 200 miles from the coast, and my personal distaste for ruining a nice sail with an extra lap of drifting just to 'get a result' (you can see where the DNFs are) and it's not a bad first season, for me at least... better than my mid table result in 2011, which frankly highlights what a joke that particular series was.


Edited by yellowwelly - 27 Aug 13 at 12:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 13 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by yellowwelly

 
 Really- handicap racing and club series.... what a joke.



yep.

rant deleted, can't be bothered





Edited by transient - 27 Aug 13 at 12:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 13 at 12:49pm
What's amusing is that unless I am mistaken had you come last in every race you finished you would have had near enough the same place in the series, which suggests it is no less (or more) of a joke than the handicap series you rail against.

Its a problem that I am sure just about every class (handicap or boat on boat) in just about every club in the country is struggling with: how, in these days where people have so many competing demands on their time, can we make it easier for as many people as possible to start enough races to genuinely compete in a series?

Basically we are all struggling with the same problems, and I'm not sure its productive to spend much time bad mouthing other folks choices for participating in the sport.

Edited by JimC - 27 Aug 13 at 12:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 13 at 1:12pm
I agree- the series positions are practically irrelevant.  That was my opening question on Page 1.  I don't for one minute think the series in solos is any more or less of a joke than in the handicap fleet, it should all be a laugh- it's sailing after all, but I do know any bad results can be put down to the sailor, not the mathematics or pressumed banditry of the boats in question.  It was only you posting that got me to even check the 2013 results for myself- although I'm pretty much where I anticipated I'd be given the various turnouts I've seen over the summer.

I do however think it's quite amusing to see someone post that the handicap makes not much difference and that 40 seconds per race is nothing.  40 seconds would be EVERYTHING in those Solo results... and to suggest it isn't important in the individual handicap races can only lead to a conclusion that handicap racing is really not that competitive, or its somehow flawed- probably a combination of both to a greater or lesser extent depending on whether or not your sailing committee are prepared to tinker with the variables and open those canned worms for the plebs in membership to digest.

Anyway, I don't mean to bag handicap racing- it's it own worst enemy, and has imnsho, delivered a nasty blow to club sailing in the UK - but overly positive, 'the handicap doesn't matter' mantra is probably doing it no favours either, especially using club series data as some sort of evidence point.  

The individual races are what matter, and going back to my windsufferer results in 2011, I came last, dead f*cking last on every one I entered, even if the spreadsheet suggests otherwise.  That does sort of make it a bigger joke than my mid fleet this year... luckily enough I've got broad enough shoulders to laugh with it, take the obvious skills deficit on the chin, rather than get all aggressive and moan about the handicap I was issued.

Anyway, I don't really see it as struggling with a problem in our fleets- with enough boats of the same flavour, each race counts for something as there are enough in the squad to field a team at every opportunity.  Sure some guys take the series a bit more seriously (they certainly do in our Laser fleet) and good luck to them, but it's not relevant to 75% of us who just want a decent race on the odd time we can make it.




Edited by yellowwelly - 27 Aug 13 at 1:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 13 at 1:14pm
To paraphrase Fermat, I have a splendid idea for this, but not enough battery to write it down...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 13 at 4:33pm
Is it winter again already? I quite often have close finishes with people in different classes who I would consider to be of similar standard. However, last night the wind switched off after the 1st Phantom had finished, leaving everyone else  15 - 30 minutes behind on the water!Not sure handicaps matter then...
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 6:59am
Originally posted by Rupert

Is it winter again already? I quite often have close finishes with people in different classes who I would consider to be of similar standard. However, last night the wind switched off after the 1st Phantom had finished, leaving everyone else  15 - 30 minutes behind on the water!Not sure handicaps matter then...

Typical summer evening conditions then.

This is why pursuit races can be better...the slower boats start in the best wind and the faster voats have to work hard to catch them.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 10:00am
The winter bit was a comment on the thread, not the sailing!

Had a lovely pursuit race on the Monday of the cvrda Nationals. Having spent the whole weekend in dirty wind, or so it seemed, the Minisails were 1st off in the Pursuit. Bliss!
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
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