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2547 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 13 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by E.J.

Happily there is very little bull, I think that the scoring was an honest attempt to balence the value of quallies and finals.the execution turn out differently than expected but hopefully the class can learn and ammend.

That's the point; learn and move on ... a great turn out for a good class at a good venue ...

Just a shame the wrong guy was given the title.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hobbiteater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 13 at 1:36pm
interestingly (or not) the glider boys are discussing about adopting a dropped score system as opposed to the current every day/race counts system
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 13 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by E.J.

I am very biast, these types of event are what keep me sailing the contender. The boat rewards loyalty, there are very few ringers in the fleet and those that try usually don't win the worlds. Mr Mussell has served his time at the back of the fleet as have most of the top guys. For this reason there is very little them and us attitude between front middle and back. Weekend warriors have a realistic chance of acheiving a topten result if they stick at it which makes for a pleasant atmosphere.

you're coming across as very good advocate for your class... happy sailing EJ!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 13 at 6:02pm
I went all the way to Canada for the 2008 worlds.  I beat the other female sailor in five out of the nine races, but she won the title because she had a beter points score than me (though we had to go to countback to work this out)  This happened because although I sailed out of my skin on the last day, beating her in all three of that day's races and with no top batten, it was really windy at the start of the day so a lot of the tail enders (Canadians) didn't race, so I din't have enough sailors to put between me and her to get the points difference..

I didn't grumble because that was the way it was.  Rules is rules and you learn to live with it.


Edited by winging it - 28 Jul 13 at 6:03pm
the same, but different...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 13 at 6:04pm
and anyway, it doesn't seem like a worlds with just one other competitor.  I need to get to a European Worlds with the German and Swiss women.  Completely gutted to have missed this one.
the same, but different...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 13 at 7:58pm
Can't say I see the logic of that at all, the best sailor didn't win, I've no idea if this is to do with the no justice scoring system they're using for Olympic TV or why it is, but it is total bollox and wrong, it needs fixing, none Olympic classes should return to the way it was, I assume the last race which in my day would have simply been his discard had to count so he chucked the 2nd, discarded a 2nd to come second, honestly and you want sailing to seem appealing?

It's f**ked up.

Not as if it's a really big fleet.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 11:26am
perhaps some one could post a copy of the relevant SI so that we could appreciate the sublties of the scoring sytem used!
Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote E.J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 11:56am
I believe the idea is ensure that results from the final series are valued more highly as they clearly harder to do well in (double the amount of top sailors). It is wrong to be able to discard 50% of these scores in favour of qualifying results against lesser competition. If we had completed 3 final race the discard would have been usable in the final series.

Everyone agrees that it better just for everyone to race the whole series together but 180 boats at Como is hard to manage which leaves you with a compromise and complication. At the time it felt like a fair enough system, it looks bad on paper as its hard to appreciate the quality difference between qualifying and final series.

Heres the SI's on discards.

21.4 (a) When fewer than 5 races have been completed, a boat’s regatta score will be the total of her race scores.   
      
(b) When from 5 to 8 races have been completed, a boat’s regatta score will be the total of her race scores excluding her worst score. However, a score from a race in the final series may be excluded only if three or more final-series races have been completed.   
      
(c) When 9 or more races have been completed, a boat’s regatta score will be the total of her race scores excluding her two worst scores. However, only one score from the final series may be excluded.
Rebel Scum.
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2547 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by E.J.

I believe the idea is ensure that results from the final series are valued more highly as they clearly harder to do well in (double the amount of top sailors). It is wrong to be able to discard 50% of these scores in favour of qualifying results against lesser competition. If we had completed 3 final race the discard would have been usable in the final series.

Everyone agrees that it better just for everyone to race the whole series together but 180 boats at Como is hard to manage which leaves you with a compromise and complication. At the time it felt like a fair enough system, it looks bad on paper as its hard to appreciate the quality difference between qualifying and final series.

Heres the SI's on discards.

21.4 (a) When fewer than 5 races have been completed, a boat’s regatta score will be the total of her race scores.   
      
(b) When from 5 to 8 races have been completed, a boat’s regatta score will be the total of her race scores excluding her worst score. However, a score from a race in the final series may be excluded only if three or more final-series races have been completed.   
      
(c) When 9 or more races have been completed, a boat’s regatta score will be the total of her race scores excluding her two worst scores. However, only one score from the final series may be excluded.

I think the lesson is to have a think about what happens if your event becomes impacted by uncooperative weather conditions. 

The above looks like a rule that would typically be written for a standard single fleet event.

In this case the event has pretty much turned into a 2 race event; the guy who finished 26th must be pretty unhappy too ...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote E.J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 13 at 12:22pm
Yes, this system works fine if you can get to 9 races and the actual result of 7 races with 2 final was probably the combination that highlighted the weaknesses most.

If it was a single fleet there would be no need breaking qualifying into 2 fleet and having a final series (everything after the word 'however' goes away!), we would have just raced 7 races in the standard fashion. This system only comes into use when you have too many competitor for 1 mass start.
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