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DFF View Drop Down
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Posts: 19 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DFF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Kite Depower
    Posted: 30 Sep 13 at 11:30am
Quite an interesting thread. Good points on depowering the main.

My tuppence: 

To dump the kite you need to have three sails up or it is swimming and worse, breakages

Oversheeting is only any good if you can bear away in the gusts- presuming you are wanting to reach to a mark. I have done this in a 29er and the 59er and melges 24 and it is scary , and you need to be able to bear away.

For more powerful boats in a blow, especially the 9er boats, RS800 and m24 since we are on keel boats, you want to consider going high on white sails to be able to come down on a lower course under kite: if you see the "ear lobes" on the above boats' polar diagrams you will see why it pays to stay upright!


Edited by DFF - 30 Sep 13 at 11:31am
Crewing on a Melges 24, against my better judgement...
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Fearful View Drop Down
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Posts: 19 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Fearful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 13 at 11:41am
Not sure how bendy your mast is but I would always recommend pulling as much downhaul/cunningham as you can get on the main. This will depower the main and should bend your mast back a bit tightening the luff of the spinnaker. Tighter the luff will make it flatter and easier to curl.

You need to be easing the spin in this situation and don't be afraid to sail the boat over on its ear as this will counter the helm.
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 13 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by iGRF

The next leg promised even better so it was definitely worth hanging in there what is particularly annoying is an RS400 holding his kite (crew lard boy) I would normally expect to trash a 400 off wind given normal crew height/weight as it is these boys are given us a hard time this year, damn near nearly had us the other week it was only supreme tactical genius that avoided a drubbing, but they nailed us this week there was a point we couldn't even hold the bloody merlin for speed, something is clearly wrong. (We're just too small for the Alto dammit)


If you are not overpowered on a reach now and then, either the kite is too small or it's not very windy.
Heavy sailors in a 400 will hold the kite quite high on a reach, it is something which is testing my faith in the boat for a club racer at the moment. When we bought the boat, our club had several 400's crewed by couples or parent/teenager teams, now it's nearly all two-bloke teams, which really pays on a tight reach in a breeze.
Merlins have more righting power, being wider, but their kite is smaller and generally not intended for having the apparent so far forward. They also tend to have raking controls.

I think you need some boat on boat racing against some people of comparable size, to get some feedback about the finer points of what works.
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Posts: 6496 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 13 at 7:57pm
Hmm I might not have entirely dumped that kicker thing, never really have fiddled with it much on the Alto of joy, wang it on at the start and leave it, unless it's really windy then I might think about it before the gybe..

Then the plate, surely if you''re trying to stay high, kick the plate and you'll just make more leeway.
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 13 at 7:24pm
In the 400, things that seem to work are easing the wingwang, to central or a bit beyond but not much.
easing  the kite a lot, so that it is on the edge of flogging
if you are really fighting to avoid a broach, stuff it up to windward instead. This last is a desperate measure for short term use, e.g to avoid moored boat that has teleported into your path. The kite will collapse onto the jib, the boat will come upright, you can regain control and then bear away or drop the kite.
Raising the centreboard or raking it back some
moving weight further aft
The kicker will be dumped anyway.
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Posts: 6496 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 13 at 5:05pm
I've thought about lots of things, fireballs, kited icons, v3000's pies and elevated shoes..
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 13 at 4:54pm
you need a smaller boat... have you thought about converting a fireball?
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Posts: 6496 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 13 at 3:52pm
The next leg promised even better so it was definitely worth hanging in there what is particularly annoying is an RS400 holding his kite (crew lard boy) I would normally expect to trash a 400 off wind given normal crew height/weight as it is these boys are given us a hard time this year, damn near nearly had us the other week it was only supreme tactical genius that avoided a drubbing, but they nailed us this week there was a point we couldn't even hold the bloody merlin for speed, something is clearly wrong. (We're just too small for the Alto dammit)

Edited by iGRF - 17 Jun 13 at 3:54pm
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Posts: 389 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mister Nick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 13 at 3:44pm
The kite is the last thing you need to depower, sort the main out first.

Over-sheeting isn't going to work for long unless you're sailing really deep. Oversheet > boat slows down > apparent wind clocks aft > bear away or fall in.

I would just keep a big curl in the luff of the asymmetric and hike harder. If the worst comes to the worst you can just flog it. You're way better off just sailing deeper though and dropping the kite when you're close enough to two-sail it in quickly. 
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Posts: 6625 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 13 at 3:40pm
I've done both in the past... I guess that hammering the kite right in would only work if it stalls completely, the boat slows down and thus the apparent wind goes back. Dump the jib and dump the kicker might be better options if they are good enough. But in theory if you have a fast boat generating loads of apparent then slowing down ought to help. But its amazing how much you can curl up a really good kite if the sheet leads are in the right place.

I also agree with Ian - the only time you struggle with the kite up to the mark is if the next leg is a good kite leg. Otherwise drop it every time. Another factor is crew's state of health/fitness: if you've got some toned hyper sportsman up the front who can whip the rag up and down in three seconds without taking an extra breath then *never* try hanging onto it. But if the forward hand won't see 45 again and only has enough burst energy for one hoist and drop per lap then you're better off struggling round the mark.

Edited by JimC - 17 Jun 13 at 3:45pm
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