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fdsailor
Newbie Joined: 05 Jun 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 27 |
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Topic: Replica Laser/Torch parts Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 9:46am |
Head above the parapet here...duck!!!
I don't wholly agree with Mark's article and many of the comments. Yes it would be much better for the club sailor (i.e. the majority). But there are implications. The Laser phenomenon at grand-prix international level is a class which hosts very professional level events, often with builder supplied boats, with all the peripheral 'circus' that goes along with prestigious events. The money for these events has to come from somewhere. Whilst there are sponsors, I suspect that at least part of all this has to be subsidized by a margin on spare parts. The spares pricing structure is possibly a mixture of the following (taking the sail as an example): Total
cost to customer = cost of sail (ex manufacturer) + distributor margin
(LPE) + dealer margin + design royalty (Kirby/Ian Bruce?) + class sail
button (ILCA admin fee) + 'circuit subsidization' (?) For replica parts the pricing structure seems to be: Total cost to customer = cost of sail (ex manufacturer) + dealer margin Is
it any wonder the sails are so much cheaper? This is why it would seem
more sensible to create a dividing line between the official parts and
the replica parts, perhaps a 'Club' level with more relaxed rules on
equipment and 'Grand Prix' level which is strict in the manner that has
stood the class in good stead for the past decades. The very high
quality circuit and business structure which has served the class well
(putting recent events aside of a moment) since it's inception may well
be thoroughly dependent on the pricing structure of spare parts. It
would be good if someone from ILCA or PSE could confirm this, but I
don't think it will happen. If opening up the sail rules completely
happens, then the following might be a suggested pricing structure: Total
cost to customer = cost of sail (ex manufacturer) + dealer margin +
class sail button + ILCA admin fee + 'manufacturer consistency' fee +
increased ILCA membership fee (to subsidize circuit) I really don't think it is as clear cut as many seem to think. If this is even mildly correct, then without the official parts, the grand-prix Laser cannot survive, as the whole premise of the class is Single Manufacturer One Design (and with an International Class this entails a large network of dealers, distributors and everyone else who takes a cut, including the designer). But they could do with making the parts a wee bit better than they are - crappy parts that last only for a season (or less in the case of sails) are no way to maintain a one design whose ethos was always bang for the buck. They perhaps need to look at streamlining their business model whilst simultaneously maintaining the strict International SMOD status that the class is built on and encouraging a more relaxed 'Club' Laser package.Still ducking... |
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pondmonkey
Really should get out more Joined: 12 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2202 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:03am |
There was great debate on the Today Programme this morning... some clown from Deloitte talking about how poor, poor old Starbucks doesn't make a profit in the UK. Hence doesn't pay any corp tax on their vast turnover.
I know, shocking isn't it... 3 quid for a coffee, 4 for luke-warm sh*te panani, an explosion of a little over a decade into every high street; further premises on retail parks; concessions in Sainsbury's; inflated prcing in all major airports, motorway services and large train stations.... but doesn't make a profit. In fact the growth as so good that the UK MD was moved to Seattle in a promotion to Group CEO... I'd promote a guy who can't turn profit... wouldn't you? I really need to check out this transfer pricing malarky... what a hoot.
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fdsailor
Newbie Joined: 05 Jun 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 27 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:14am |
I think Rastegar is bad news, and I don't agree with ISAF or ILCA. But I also don't think it's as clear cut as many are making out, that's all. Without transparency in pricing structures it's all going to remain conjecture, but the money to support arguably the finest Laser OD racing events needs to come from somewhere, and my basic question is if part of the inflated prices comes from the need to subsidize other areas of the class, and if this goes then does the CA need to take up the slack by increasing subscription fees? I wonder if RS have a similar pricing structure and do this subsidization thing too (although with much better quality parts)?
Edited by fdsailor - 26 Apr 13 at 10:15am |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:18am |
If anyone thinks allowing multiple manufacturers would reduce the price of sails I suggest they check out the price of North Optimist rags... Competition within a class puts up prices, because fastest sells best, its only competition between classes that reduces them.
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pondmonkey
Really should get out more Joined: 12 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2202 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:26am |
agreed to a level - that is why if I were Kirby I'd debadge the approved manufacturers, thus reducing the exposure of the brands. it's a poor example though, North are never cheap and not always the best: |
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rb_stretch
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 742 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:31am |
I remember a fascinating speech from the CEO of a company that was a successful, profitable and long lasting monopoly. His secret, never make so much money that your customers think you are profiteering (either due to cost or poor product).
As soon as people think you are profiteering it invites other potential competitors to try and muscle in on the money. If you keep below the radar, then people just accept the niche, that it is working and therefore too difficult to compete against. That leaves the monopoly to just be a healthy long serving company to it's customers. I wish more CEOs were like this and more importantly able to keep shareholders on board that this is the best strategy. |
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2547
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:46am |
I think the Oppi class is a bit of a special case as it is funded by over zealous parents who think little Jonny is going to the Olympics. Just turn up at any open and you will see more massive motorhomes and spectator RIBs than you can shake a stick at ... Oppi is not representative of any other dinghy class, it has been corrupted by rich parents.
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fdsailor
Newbie Joined: 05 Jun 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 27 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:53am |
Just to set out my turf here, I think that the status quo of clubs turning a blind eye to non-official kit whilst ILCA or whoever insist on genuine kit for the full circuit is probably the best option. They just need to make that official kit better value for money - i.e. make it last longer and perhaps be honest about where that markup is going. Open up the replica market in full and those (possibly circuit subsidizing) markups will have to be found somewhere else (probably through the class subs). The replica sellers will look good as their sails will still cost the same, but the class will have a real expensive administrative headache ensuring consistency, and will have to pass those admin costs on to their members along with circuit subsidization costs. Thats a good idea to remove any trace of where the sails were made though. Just my opinion !
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pondmonkey
Really should get out more Joined: 12 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2202 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 11:34am |
that's the beauty of the potential of Kirby working with the replica market... it would tidy up the issue so that there isn't any 'blind eye' culture.
Everyone would be racing with legal kit- it strengthens the one design club racing.
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gary145
Posting king Joined: 05 Aug 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 116 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:39pm |
why should the club sailor subsidize the top events? Shouldn't they be self financing? |
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