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Does everything need an asymmetric kite? |
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Do Different
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312 |
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Topic: Does everything need an asymmetric kite? Posted: 21 Mar 13 at 3:49pm |
I ask following the RS200 SRS question.
I guess they came down from the skiff classes but do they really work that well on slower heavier boats, 12ft rotomoulds? There was recently a very informative thread about the maths of sailing high n fast vs deep running, did those maths apply all the way down the scale of fast to slow boats? GRF thinks in some cases even the Alto would go better running deeper still. From a design point of view there is an argument for the simplicity of symmetric kites, especially with some classes employing a swinging pole. To have a swinging pole you need string, blocks and strength in the bow, where it is accepted wisdom that the lighter the ends of a boat are the better it will perform. A symmetric kite in simple terms only needs a pole and a ring on the front of the mast. Perhaps widespread adoption of asymmetric kites is part fashion and part perceived ease of use. I know from my own experience that I was very nervous going from a Buzz to a symmetric kite, big free floppy thing that I imagined it might be. In practice I quickly adapted to it and embraced the choices it offered, the Buzz did sometimes feel as if "the tail was wagging the dog" whereas now all the options are mine to get completely wrong. Perhaps even, boats such as the Icon with their big blading off mains make kites redundant in some circumstances. I have no answers but so many questions. |
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2547
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Mar 13 at 4:16pm |
Assys on slow boats have one primary benefit, they make spinnaker handling much easier.
Performance wise they are not as good as symmetric kites.
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oldarn
Far too distracted from work Joined: 10 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 440 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Mar 13 at 4:21pm |
Almost certainly the answer is, no they don't on slower heavier boats, whether rotomoulded or not. The non swinging pole asymmetric system is cheaper than a symmetric and it has been a marketing necessity to offer it, due to a fashion requirement. It would appear to have only a slight advantage over no kite in wind, and a disadvantage in lighter airs over no kite, especially if against a current, |
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thefastexcitingrunningasymmetric
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SoggyBadger
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Oct 10 Location: The Wild Wood Online Status: Offline Posts: 552 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Mar 13 at 4:29pm |
Lipstick on pigs. Still it keeps the posers out of the sport proper.
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Best wishes from deep in the woods
SB |
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pondmonkey
Really should get out more Joined: 12 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2202 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Mar 13 at 4:31pm |
and it's a poor trade off for most round-the-cans racing... especially if the kite is a little on the big side. Personally I think they're a bit of 90's fad that might well be coming to its natural conclusion on new boat launches... designs like the Icon, NS14, DCB, Shaw 4.0, the current crop of Moths and Dan's Punk proving efficiency and simplicity can deliver an equally rewarding sailing experience to a dumbed down, Downton Abbey Lake SC version of 'Great Aussie Skiffs, Shielas Optional'. |
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oldarn
Far too distracted from work Joined: 10 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 440 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Mar 13 at 4:53pm |
If you wish to sail a large fast dinghy then it requires a largish kite. It's much easier for the average crew to handle an asymmetric and especially gybe it, rather than a symmetric. |
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thefastexcitingrunningasymmetric
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SoggyBadger
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Oct 10 Location: The Wild Wood Online Status: Offline Posts: 552 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Mar 13 at 5:16pm |
Decades of sailing performance dinghies (mostly Ospreys) teaches me that your statement is drivel. The average crew can easily be taught to handle a symmetrical spinnaker and modern developments such as self-launching twin poles make the operation very slick indeed. |
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Best wishes from deep in the woods
SB |
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Mar 13 at 5:25pm |
They are just a different toy. The market for Symmetric boats was saturated, with no space for new designs, so designers latched onto a trendier looking way of doing things derived from boats which went fast enough to never need to run. The successful ones changed things enough that they worked on slow boats as, basically, a big jib, but still looked, to uneducated eyes, the same as that found on a skiff. A new market was born. Once there was one design racing, it didn't matter that a dead run might be faster - the fun was in the tactics.
The fact that they need to be considerably larger than a conventional kite to get a boat round the course in a vaguely similar time shows that on a slow boat they are less efficient. But less fun? Depends who you are and what you want to do. |
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tick
Far too distracted from work Joined: 16 Nov 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 223 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Mar 13 at 5:30pm |
We have one of those Wayfarer Worlds things with an asymmetric. It was given to us by a school. Good laugh in a howler 3 up but other tan that little point that I can see.
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iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 21 Mar 13 at 5:32pm |
Yes everything should have an assym style kite and everything should also have a pole that swings like the Alto, all that ancient pissing about with a pole, I've never done it and never will, why should I? It's what old people do in those old fashioned boat things where they shout at each other and decide the outcome of the race off the water or spend ages treating the thing for woodworm.
Assyms open the sport up to real folk, not snobby beardy, pipe and socks in sandals with blazer wearing halfwits called geoffrey.. I'm only speculating about the Alto it goes OK in light weather anyway, but those bandits in the Merlin need a good shoeing this year, they walked away with far to much silverware last year and desperate times need desperate measures. New kite, new main, I'm wondering if the pole actually needs to dangle it could be a deck mount on a string and bungee, either way it'll confuse the beejezus out of them, we'll then crap on them and off we go..next stop full moon as we pass them for the second time |
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