National Handicap For Cruisers (NHC)

The problem with each club having its own rating system is that they are mostly apparently based on either blind guesswork and/or plagiarising IRC ratings.
This leaves the boats with IRC ratings paying for the whole system.
I don't know what an IRC rating costs now, but it was getting to be a barrier to some people last time I ws involved.

Hi craiggo

When your typical club cruiser costs £6-15k and annual club membership is £85 + £40 for a mooring, then another £100 is a large increment. For South Coast guys with Marina fees of £4k I can accept your point but you have to remember that the South Coast is not representative of the whole uk sailing scene.

Why have a paid system when a perfectly good free system could have been created for those who don't want IRC?

Originally posted by blueboy .... I don't see any evidence that systems such as ISC Handicap are any more or less "blind guesswork" than any system that is not professionally administered is likely to be, or that the constituency of (largely) once-a-year racers that use it is crying out for a national system instead. .....

The ISC system is not as blind in its guesswork as some of the anomalies in the NHC numbers.
Yes the people who use such systems are mostly fairly happy, but I suspect the lack of any formula or consistency becomes an issue if you want to move from club to club, or introduce a design that is not easy to guess a club rating based on 'similar' boats.
Club ratings can be quite 'finger in the air', like 'looks about half way between a Sigma 33 and and Impala to me...' This is often good enough, but I wouldn't want to have to justify it if a few seconds decided who got the champagne...

While the cost of an IRC rating is not extreme to many people, it should be remembered that even modest changes can invalidate the certificate. If you go IRC, you do not just get a number, you accept a bunch of class rules to keep that cert valid.

Many yachts also race singlehanded, two handed and other sub-ratings which may be separate from their IRC rating.

It's worth remembering that Yot Racing is not unique to the Uk, there is other data out there if you need a number for a Saab 900 or whatever!
Maybe we should be looking to share data with other countries?

Originally posted by craiggo Why have a paid system when a perfectly good free system could have been created for those who don't want IRC?

It's your assertion that "a perfectly good free system" is possible. It's pretty apparent that no handicap system ever devised, free or otherwise, is "perfectly good". The question is how imperfect you are prepared to put up with and how much you are prepared to pay to make it better.

The country that's embraced performance-based handicapping for cruisers most strongly is the USA i.e. PHRF, with a regional board system for governance and, apparently, some 20,000 certificates issued annually. It's not free - a typical cost might be around £30-40 equivalent versus £100 for a 30 footer in IRC. It certainly isn't perfect, nor are handicaps produced by different regional boards identical. Whereas in the UK, we have choice: free rough-and-ready handicapping and IRC for those prepared to pay a bit more for a professionally management measurement-based system. I've owned boats that have raced in both systems and I think that choice suits most people. When 95% of my racing was OD I did handicap racing in club handicap, knowing it would take a miracle to win, because it didn't matter enough to me to pay the £ for IRC. When I did more handicap racing, I paid for an IRC certificate. That's exactly the kind of choice for owners the system we've got allows.

It's got to be realised that PY more or less works for dinghies because you've got substantial numbers of returns for identical boats. For cruisers, aside from a handful of classes,  you don't and you never will. The problem to be solved is not the same. Anyone who thinks there is ever going to be a system for handicapping cruisers that's both reliable and free just doesn't understand the issues.

But hey, if that perfect and free system is out there, go use it. If it can be invented, go invent it. Clubs don't have to use what the RYA provides and in many cases, they don't.


Edited by blueboy - 17 Apr 13 at 8:08am