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JimC
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Topic: 420 winged rudder Posted: 18 Jan 13 at 9:39pm |
Originally posted by robin34024
if the class association had given a dispensation ... legal |
Debatable, because the dispensation is very limited. In any case the race office should be notified, because its very easy to imagine them wishing to make a handicap change. A more extreme example was when the Enterprise association issued a dispensation allowing pole kites for handicap events only. It is (or was) thus quite legal to have a pole kite on your Enterprise for the BM, but you sure as **** wouldn't expect or be given the same handicap.
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laser4000
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Posted: 18 Jan 13 at 11:40pm |
Now what was that story about a merlin at some event or other that was 'testing' some fancy sailcloth..
If you have a non-std boat and sailing in a hcap event, surely you have to declare on entry, so that you can be issued with a non std hcap. Imagine a solo that 'hoists the whomper' when they've rounded the windward makr...
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Lukepiewalker
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Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 9:49am |
The class association can give dispensation in their own events, not other peoples. Otherwise I'm asking the topper class for dispensation to sail a foiling moth off their handicap next year... The event organisers can give dispensation. The point is, as with just about everything else, you should ask first, then you avoid embarrasement.
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Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
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Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air"
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Andymac
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Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 10:23am |
Originally posted by Lukepiewalker
The point is, as with just about everything else, you should ask first, then you avoid embarrasement.
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Agreed, that is indeed the crux of the matter. In all probability, the 'trial' 800 sails, the 420 wing rudders? and indeed the '2011' Merlin sails would have been given the same PY as their class counterparts, but it is the organisers of the event's perogative to decide and for no one else to presume. A declaration beforehand is the only way of avoiding any controversy. Bear in mind, some years ago a very well sailed Bosun was DSQ'd from a high placing in the BM, because it was using an assymetric kite (which I believe at the time had tacit agreement by the class to trial), which had not been declared to the race organisation.
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Daniel Holman
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Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 10:52am |
Yep there are mods and there are mods, an rs400 kite on a bosun is quite a mod!
Anyhow, these are fun events and sure winning has some kudos, but worrying about what somebody is doing to their boat further down the pack is missing the point a bit.
I suspect that if you threw the book at a lot of boats at these events they'd fall over on some technicality.
Who checks the rack settings on the 800s?
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PeterG
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Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 11:02am |
I suspect that if you threw the book at a lot of boats at these events they'd fall over on some technicality. Who checks the rack settings on the 800s?
Quite probably true, but is that the point? The fact that a lot of boats might fall over on a technicality, of which in most cases they probably wouldn't be aware, does not justify knowingly using out of class new kit without having the good manners and good sportmanship to declare it beforehand.
Those trying out wings on their 420s rudder and new sails for their 800s may regard the event as a bit of fun where they can try something new out, but it's a hell of an assumption to make that the organisers (who've put a load of work in) and all the other competitors see it that way.
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Peter
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DY 59
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SoggyBadger
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Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 11:14am |
Originally posted by Lukepiewalker
The class association can give dispensation in their own events, not other peoples. Otherwise I'm asking the topper class for dispensation to sail a foiling moth off their handicap next year... The event organisers can give dispensation. The point is, as with just about everything else, you should ask first, then you avoid embarrasement.
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Spot on.
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Best wishes from deep in the woods
SB
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Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 2:31pm |
You usually have more luck asking for forgiveness than permission though.
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sargesail
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Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 2:42pm |
Originally posted by Andymac
Originally posted by Lukepiewalker
The point is, as with just about everything else, you should ask first, then you avoid embarrasement.
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Agreed, that is indeed the crux of the matter. In all probability, the 'trial' 800 sails, the 420 wing rudders? and indeed the '2011' Merlin sails would have been given the same PY as their class counterparts, but it is the organisers of the event's perogative to decide and for no one else to presume. A declaration beforehand is the only way of avoiding any controversy. Bear in mind, some years ago a very well sailed Bosun was DSQ'd from a high placing in the BM, because it was using an assymetric kite (which I believe at the time had tacit agreement by the class to trial), which had not been declared to the race organisation. |
Ahh class association trials...
Some years before I had the pleasure to do the Bosun Nats in a much earlier and simpler (mast gate mod to restrict sideways bend) version of the very same Franken Bosun. In light airs (observed that the mast never touched the mast gate) we over achieved and were leading when we came ashore.
I was then informed that there was a Measurement Protest against me....
I asked for the Class Rules....to be told that they said that Measurement decisions were the prerogative of the Chief Measurer....and when I asked who was bringing the Protest....the answer was "The Chief Measurer". Says I - "but this boat has a dispensation to compete"...."Only if teh Chief Measurer says it has..."
The protest was left until next day...we underachieved (still in light airs) and finished fourth, if I recall the Measurer was third or second....and the protest never took place.
All very silly....but illustrates what happens when you play fast and loose with the rules.
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JimC
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Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 3:42pm |
Originally posted by Peaky
You usually have more luck asking for forgiveness than permission though. |
Even if that's true, the consequences of not getting forgiveness are far more serious.
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