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Iain C View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Iain C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 05 at 10:39pm

Originally posted by redback

You know there is a sports boat with a swing keel.  It was at the Boat Show but I can't find an ad in Y&Y and I can't remember its name.

 

It's the Backmann 21...and I want one!!

 

49er GBR340 "20KSB"
Sabre 27 "Summer Girl"
Foiling Moth GBR4093 "Beermoth"
1965 Flying 15 K797 "Braveheart"
Fireball GBR14110
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Doug Lord View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Doug Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 05 at 10:42pm
ISIS, believe me "respect" is a two way street-some individuals that replied to that thread have reasonable ideas ; others start out and finish up with personal attacks with no rational response at all-so be it.
RB- Bethwaite is introduceing a 26 footer with a 60(!) canting keel with a wingshaped bulb for lateral resistance.(And mini's ,and a company in Spain ripping off CBTF ect)
But on my proposed 17 footer the RM achievable is FAR in excess of that achievable with a canting keel with the same weight.


Edited by Doug Lord
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Isis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 05 at 11:20pm
Fair play.
Can I ask how much experiance you have sailing high performance boats/skiffs?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Doug Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 05 at 11:37pm
I have 45 years sailing and racing experience in a multitude of boats from mono's to multi's. I haven't
sailed a "production" skiff but have many hours sailing my "aeroSKIFF" a 16 foot experimental hydrofoil that is all carbon and weighs 200 pounds; it is a singlehander(that can be doublehanded) with 182 sq. ft of upwind sail(see:

http://www.monofoiler.com/

for two year old pictures). I designed and built it and dozens of other boats over the years. Still under development with plenty of problems to sort out-lots of fun though.
I've had a lifelong passion for sailing and design-hence this 17 footer concept; I think based on my experience and the performance of models using the system I describe that there is potential for on-deck movable ballast. Sure there are problems but when you consider the potential of a sit down single hander that could plane to windward it may be worth experimenting with.
--------------------
Does anyone know why the url in this post is not "live"? On my first post it worked well;this doesn't and I can't see why....

Edited by Doug Lord
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 05 at 8:18am

Originally posted by Isis

Ive just read the Sailing Anarchy thread... obvouisly got a lot of respect on there Doug

SA is truly horrible. I know some people here also post there and once in a while there is something of interest, but the overall atmosphere is so aggressive and there are so many people who evidently haven't a clue about what they are discussing, that personally, I doubt I'd ever bother posting there.

Incidentally there has been at least one abusive post on this thread that Mark has removed. My main concern about Doug starting to post here is that some of his SA antagonists will move in too. I've seen similar happen on other boards. 

 

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redback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 05 at 7:53pm

I spoke the Backman 21 builder at the Southampton show.  It looks like a great boat for a blast.  Sadly the demonstator did not have the swing keel working, I'm looking forward to seeing it in the flesh and with its keel working!  I'm keeping my eyes and ears open for a trial sail.  I have tried a SB3 (which is a bit bigger) but the Backman should be faster which will make it quite an exciting boat.  Its altogether a more high tech machine, apart from the keel it has a carbon mast, hightech sails and epoxy hull.  Keep an eye on this one, I reckon its going to figure.

http://www.backmanboats.com/

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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 05 at 9:06am
Interesting concept but I wonder what happens if you get knocked down with the keel on the wrong side. Small keelboats do experience knock-downs to both windward and leeward. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Doug Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 05 at 11:34pm
You know, I hear stuff like that all the time about canting keels and it could be asked about a new movable ballast system such as I propose above. But if the systems are designed right, built well and sailed competently most situations that come up will be able to be recovered from and dealt with in shortorder.
People sometimes forget that similar questions/ problems can happen on any high performance dinghy or high performance keel boat. What happens if you have four guys standing on racks hanging from trapezes and the wind quits or a "hand of God" gust slams them?
;what happens if the bulb falls off a fin keel or a dinghy pitchpoles? You can ALWAYS pick a negative scenario and they WILL happen; you can only hope that the design of the systems involved and the seamanship of the people involved are up to it....

Edited by Doug Lord
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 05 at 6:34am

With respect Doug, your sailing CV doesn't seem to include much keelboat sailing. Mine does. I've watched five crew swim away from a sinking keelboat identical to mine following a knock-down to windward. These things happen and they can have serious consequences. Keelboat racing does not normally have safety boat cover.

Four guys hanging off the trapeze no longer exercise a righting moment once tea-bagged, while the keel of a knocked-down keelboat is exercising maximum righting moment. If that moment is in the wrong direction, "How do you get out get out of that" is an eminently pertinent question to ask; preferably before it happens for real. 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote aardvark_issues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 05 at 9:33am
Originally posted by Doug Lord

if the systems are designed right, built well and sailed competently


You can never account for Muppets going sailing... I've seen very bad sailors, trying to sail boats well above their station and getting stung pretty badly.
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