Faster on Port
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9825
Printed Date: 27 Jun 25 at 4:27pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Faster on Port
Posted By: Kev M
Subject: Faster on Port
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 11:32am
|
I posted the following message on the Blaze forum as I figured it was best to try the CA website first. I've had a decent reply which has lead to a couple more generic rig setup questions that I thought might get more responses from here. I've got no figures to prove it, just a gut feeling every time I sail, but I'm convinced that when I'm going up wind my boat is faster over the water on port than when I'm on starboard. I'm talking about sheeting in the exact same amount on each side and sailing to the tell-tales. On port the boat feels like it's flowing, on starboard it feels like it's fighting against the wind (this is all inland so there's no tide involved) and is struggling to make progress. The mast seems straight, the rig equally tensioned/slack on each side (although it's hard to tell). One possibility is that one of the spreaders seems more reluctant to swing than the other so I'll take a look at that on Saturday and try and get it moving freely. If it's a tension thing should I start by going tighter (tricky) or slacker on the starboard shroud? The other thing is, what effect does spreader length have? Is it just a way of taking up the slack in the shroud or do they do something more important? I've been advised to check the horse/traveller (centre main) is equal and to make sure the foils are aligned. I've got a vague idea for checking the horse but it doesn't seem very accurate and I've no idea how to check the alignment of the foils. I do know that the centreboard bush is wider than the centreboard so there is room for some side to side play in it but the slot gasket is new and stiff so I would have thought that would be keeping it in a central position. Any help would be much appreciated. Kev ------------- Successfully confusing ambition with ability since 1980. |
Replies:
Posted By: pondmonkey
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 11:39am
|
If you snowboarded or windsurfed you'd be considered 'regular' rather than 'goofy'. I've always sailed better on port tack (and this is particularly noticeable windsurfing) it's just the way my brain's wired. But of course do check the boat out too... that could also affect things. ------------- |
Posted By: kevg
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 12:06pm
| If it not the rig, is your hull symetrical? Are the foils square in the boat? |
Posted By: rodney
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 12:08pm
|
I am also guessing that you are right handed? ------------- Rodney Cobb Suntouched Sailboats Limited http://www.suntouched.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.suntouched.co.uk [EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 12:18pm
|
Are you sure you aren't faster on brandy and babycham? I've found on occasion that the boat has been faster on one tack than another, but I think it can be often down to the windshifts to begin with, and then it becomes self fulfilling, as you tense up on the tack you think is bad. Of course, check the mast is actually upright, and get the spreader working properly, though. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 12:31pm
thanks for this, elaine was always told me it was just me!  i have always gone better on one tack than the other, what ever boat i have owned and it made no diferance if the boat had shrouds or was una rigged. the only thing is................ i go better on starboard  and i am right handed!------------- |
Posted By: pondmonkey
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 12:50pm
|
Nope- there's a correlation with handedness, but it's not written in stone. I ride regular but am most definitely left handed - writing, bat n' ball, full of sh*t creative type etc in truth you're just goofy- lol.
Put a skateboard in front of you- which foot leads? I'd wager there's a good chance it'll be your right foot, pushing with your left. That's 'goofy', which is actually 'cooler' in board circles, so you can go home feeling smug and cool tonight. There's another test for goofiness - it involves and blind food and being pushed over. Let me know if you'd like to try it one day ;-) ------------- |
Posted By: Kev M
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 1:43pm
|
So, it could well be me and not the boat then. Best I concentrate on techniques and not technicalities then. Not such a quick fix. As it goes, I snowboard and wakeboard on port, I can ride goofy and turn both ways on a snowboard but with a wake board I'm like Derek Zoolander, I can only turn one way (left). Turning right ends in a face plant. I'm also left handed when I write and right handed at everything else. Just look at all these brilliant excuses we're coming out with for those at the forum open meeting. ------------- Successfully confusing ambition with ability since 1980. |
Posted By: pondmonkey
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 1:51pm
|
So you snowboard regular (but can ride switch if you want to) and sail better on port, but can just about sail on starboard too if everyone keeps out of your way? (someone sensible wrote the rule book!)
That's just like me.... except I don't wakeboard because I'm not ghey. Thread solved ;-) ------------- |
Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 4:29pm
| Maybe the hull is twisted. About 15 years ago I was told that if you took any Lark without rig and pushed it out into a lake all hulls would veer one way, maybe the mould was a bit bent. I havent a clue how you can find out if your Blaze is bent though. |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 7:26pm
|
when we bought new Fireflies at uni I seem to remember the hull being skewed enough that for a straight mast, one shroud was a hole lower than the other. The same side on all six- it was a mould issue.
------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Reuben T
Date Posted: 16 Dec 12 at 5:53pm
|
There is actually a scientific explanation that should effect everyone apart from those in tropical latitudes, although the effect is reversed in the southern hemisphere. It all starts due to the nature of how wind and gusts are formed. As I presume you all know, wind blows roughly along isobars, however due to the friction caused by land and sea the wind is slowed down and therefore is altered to blow a slightly more direct rout between the high pressure and low pressure. This results in the wind blowing 15 degrees off the isobaratic/gradient wind over the sea, and due to larger friction, 30 degrees different over land. A large number of gusts are where for some reason the stronger higher altitude wind has found it's way down to ground level, therefore will be from a slightly different direction that will favor one tack more than the other. This especially applies to micro gusts (lasting less than a second and often found about the height of the top of the mast). This means that on one tack you will effectively be given tiny lifts every now and then that will give you slightly more favorable winds without you especially being aware of it. hope I explained this well enough for you to understand
|
Posted By: robin34024
Date Posted: 16 Dec 12 at 6:28pm
|
Check your slot gasket; I had a friend who had a loose slot gasket, and on starboard, the water pressure held it on, but on port, it dragged, making the boat feel sluggish. ------------- |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 17 Dec 12 at 8:11am
|
Check and measure the boat as best you can. There may be a small difference but it is more likely to be that you feel better sailing on one tack than on the other. I always feel like I struggle on starboard and am much faster on port. Then I look round me at what other boats are doing and realise that actually i am doing just fine and then concentrate on what I should be doing than my perception that there is a problem. As others have said though definitely worth checking the board and rudder alignment out and measure from the mast head to the transom corners as well as the over all rake. It is unlikely to be the boat though. The only real Blaze 'issue' that I am aware of is the join of the hull/deck in at the front of centreboard case which has a tandancy to separate on the early Mk 2 hulls (654 and upwards). ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: mangoman
Date Posted: 17 Dec 12 at 10:09am
|
I am right handed and convinced my vortex is better on starboard tack than port. There seems to be weather helm on port whereas on starboard the boat feels more "neutral". I have checked the lean of the mast and that shrouds and lowers are all the same tension. All measurements point to all being equal . The only explanation I can find as others are saying is that it is just the way the boat feels to me due to being right handed ! The only check I haven't done is to put all the foils in, turn the boat upside down and somehow check that all is in line; quite what I'd do if I found one of the boards to be out is another matter of course ..... |
Posted By: ohFFsake
Date Posted: 21 Jan 13 at 1:27am
|
I was having this trouble in a recent race and when I analysed it afterwards with my crew we came up with a slightly different reason. What if the wind direction is slightly different further up the mast? Let's say the wind is blowing from true north at deck level, and this is what you sail to as per your tell tails. But if you go up 20 feet and the wind there is blowing at (say) 010 degrees then assuming there is a bit of twist in your sails you will have a rig that is spot on whilst on starboard tack, but on port the top of the sails won't be driving at all as they will be nearly backed. Your upper leach tell tails don't help that much here - on the bad tack they will flow really freely anyway as the sail is nearly head to wind. On the "good" tack the top tell tail might stall when the sail is overtrimmed but if you are anything like me you don't tend to look at them as much when the boat feels like it's going well - it's when it isn't you start fiddling with stuff! We noticed this as we spotted a clear pattern of shifts in the gusts which usually implies that the wind direction higher up is different to that at the water level - only in the gusts does this true wind reach down to you, whereas in the lulls obstructions at ground level deflect it. If the problem persists, or continues in stronger winds then simplest way forwards might be to swap boats with someone else?
|
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 21 Jan 13 at 7:20am
| It's called wind sheer - particularly apparent in cold stable air. It is unusual to need/be able to tri,m differently for it in dinghies, but in the j24 winter series we would set differenent genoa car positions and mainsheet/track to do different twist on the two tacks. |
Posted By: cvlsc96
Date Posted: 03 Feb 13 at 9:14pm
| I used to have a mirror dinghy that was way faster than everyone else on port but rubbish on starboard. Eventually found a fault in the plywood core which caused it to twist when under pressure. Spent a lot of time trying to make a board that would twist correctly on both tacks but never achieved it ! |