port /starboard obstruction
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9813
Printed Date: 29 Jun 25 at 9:03am
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Topic: port /starboard obstruction
Posted By: fudheid
Subject: port /starboard obstruction
Date Posted: 12 Sep 12 at 1:36pm
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Just after the start gun and clearing the line a group of yachts on starboard. the most leeward yacht (committee boat end) calls for water for a lobster pot
and tacks onto port encouraging 3 others to tack onto port . One yacht on starboard (from pin end) closing in on these yachts hails 'Starboard' only to be told by the first port tack boat that there is an obstruction - ( might have been for the committee boat but we think it was for lobster pot). we were forced to tack to avoid a collision. 1. is a lobster pot an obstruction? or channel markers can you call water for them? 2. what should have happened? FYI we hailed protest on (we were starboard boat) the other boat carried onunfortunatley we did not have protest flag. So this is to see what our peers think. I have never heard any call a lobster pot an obstruction or call water for one?? ------------- Cheers you only me from over the sea...... |
Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 12 Sep 12 at 2:05pm
As is almost always the case you need to go to the definitions in the rule book...
A single buoy marking a lobster pot is unlikely to be an obstruction, but a chain of them could be... But for sure as soon as the port boat is clear of the obstruction they are obliged to tack back if a starboard boat is coming. There are a fair number of cases on the subtleties of the obstrction rules in the case book: well worth a read. Not great practice to set a start line with a genuine obstruction just to windward, that's for sure. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 12 Sep 12 at 2:41pm
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When you spot the 3m of rope on the surface, a pot marker can suddenly become an obstruction. But once someone has hailed you should accept their hail and protest if you think they are wrong. Once the group of boats were on port and clear of the pot marker, the most leeward one might need to call for water to tack to avoid the incoming starboard boat, which will be an obstruction. If there is not room to tack back avoiding the pot marker, the whole group might have to duck the starboard tacker. The original hailed boat might have done well to call 'you tack', duck the tacking boat and leave the others to argue about it. Just mind you don't get the pot marker around the rudder :-) |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 12 Sep 12 at 10:38pm
| If you are coming out on port having done the Room call among yourselves, and then found a starboard tacker who nobody asked, for room then you are the Give Way boat. Your choice is tack back, or duck. Straight Port and Starboard obstruction irrelevant because of the way the port tackers went about it. |
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 13 Sep 12 at 11:10am
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1. Boat 1 (the one who claims they had to tack for an obstruction) was required to give the hailed boats time to respond. This includes any time required for boat to windward to hail another boat. If she hailed and tacked almost immediately she broke rule 20.1a. Once boats were on port the starboard boat was an obstruction for all boats on port. Furthest boat, the one required to act first to keep clear of Starboard can hail for room to tack back on to starboard. AsSargesail says thisis now a straight rule 10 incident. ------------- Gordon |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 13 Sep 12 at 11:25am
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I have to say I've never heard a lobster pot called as an obstruction, it would make interesting racing down at Bognor & Felpham, they are everywhere down there and anyway how many boat lengths is required, it's hardly a riverbank or something never ending that could likely occasion damage... ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 13 Sep 12 at 11:34am
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Please describe lobster pot - i presume we are talking about the buoy. Was it a heavy dan buoy or a milk bottle? Was there a pick up line trailing downwind? Was there a pot line near the surface? A protest committee would have to decide if, when a boat was one boat length from, and sailing directlt towards, the object the seamanlike action would be to make a substantial course change. If so the pot was an obstruction. ------------- Gordon |
Posted By: fudheid
Date Posted: 13 Sep 12 at 1:28pm
pot was attached to line with small buoy i.e. size of 4litre milk bottle and approx 2m of line showing on the surface. tide was not running hard maybe 1knot max....
 similar to tis.... Not that it matters but everyone else avoids the pots as they interfere with your speed! We have lots of pots (east coast) and this is the first time i have heard someone call water for a pot, surely it is the same scenario as calling water for a channel mark? i.e. it is not a mark of the course so is not an obstruction? ------------- Cheers you only me from over the sea...... |
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 13 Sep 12 at 2:41pm
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Any mark or buoy can be an obstruction if it meets the definition. Unlike rule 18, rules 19 and 20 are safety rules designed to protect boats. It is irrelevant what the obstruction is except that rule 19 does not apply at a mark unlessthe mark is a continuing obstruction. ------------- Gordon |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 11:03am
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From the description of 2m of line on the surface, it seems marginal whether it is an obstruction or not. It might depend on whether the sailor reasonable believed the line continued away from the pot at a shallow angle, which might make it necessary to pass several metres upwind/uptide of it. So the call for room to tack should be respected. But having tacked onto port, the hailing boat would need to tack back onto starboard to avoid the starboard boat, or pass behind it. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 11:10am
I don't think there is a requirement for an obstruction to be capable of causing damage. A length of rope that can ensnare your rudder is an obstruction if it's long enough, as is a big patch of floating weed. |
Posted By: gbrspratt
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 1:37pm
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doesn't anything become an obstruction if your stupid enough to get close to it? ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 14 Sep 12 at 1:52pm
No: because its a definition in the rules: see what I posted on the first page. In many ways the definitions are the most important part of the rules, because most of the rules can't be understood without understanding the definitions they use. |