I've sailed for a fair few years now, but always monohull dinghies. Just recently, I have started sailing cats, and they are just the most fun ever. I've sailed dart16, dart18 and hobie16, and they are all great. However, I am faced with a dilemma.

I like the bulletproof nature of the dart16 (dart18 chips too easily) but it has no spinnaker. And the hobie does, which is great, but I think that also chips a bit easily, but far worse, it pitchpoles easily, which I really don't like!

I am sailing for my own pleasure, not racing. So, suggestions please. Is there anyone who makes a spinnaker for a dart16, and if not, what is the nearest equivalent that does have one, but doesnt pitchpole as easily as the hobie.

(oh, and I suppose I should mention I am a particular fan of there not being a boom!!!)

Thanks

Perry

You're right as well. Found it in the back of the laser website. Never seen one with it though!

Any idea who the person is on grafham. I'd love to meet them!

Thanks

Perry

Perry,

Where do you sail ?  I Sorry, no idea who it is; should be at the club this Sunday and If I see them I'll ask them.

I mostly sail at Datchett near Heathrow in west London, but Grafham is only an hours drive, so it's perfectly doable as a Sunday out!

Perry, ever heard of the Topcat range? They're breaking into the UK market this year - there has already been a review in the Aug edition of Dinghy magazine, I'd be interested to see Y&Y do something similar.

The K1, K2 and K3 (18ft, 17ft and 15ft respectively) are skeg boats, very well built and very similar to Darts to sail - no boom, simple controls, K1 & K2 available with asymmetrics.

Like you I sailed monohull dinghies for years and started cat sailing this year - and I agree with you about the fun factor!!  I bought a used Dart18 in January and got hooked almost immediately.

I'm also sailing mostly for fun nowadays and I've been sailing a Topcat K2 (17ft, twin trapeze) that has been parked at our club for demonstration purposes since July. I'm enjoying it so much I'm going to buy it (just have to decide whether to sell Dart18 to help pay for it).

If you're interested in trying one, we're holding another demonstration day on Saturday 3rd September - although if you can't make it we'll have the K2 at the club for good once it's mine and you're welcome to try it. We currently also have a K1 in the boat park for demo purposes.

Topcats are completely new to the UK although have been popular elsewhere in Europe and around the world - a few people I've spoken to have sailed them at various beach resorts on their holidays.

If you're interested see our website with links to Topcat's also.

http://www.cs-sc.org.uk - www.cs-sc.org.uk

Andy.

Andy,

Looks good. I can't get to canvey on 3rd, but I might well take you up on your offer sometime. I know the area quite well, and used to sail a lot out of leigh-on-sea nearby when I was younger.

Can you tell me one thing. What is the hull made out of. Something I noticed at our local club was the difference between the rotomoulded dart16 and the grp dart18. When the dart 18 touched the pontoon, it immediately chipped, whereas the dart16 ended up getting pulled up the slipway and didnt seem to do any damage to it.

Much as I like the speed of the dart 18 and similar boats (which is unquestionably faster than the dart16) I still think I want something which will be almost bombproof.

Anyway, thanks for the heads up, I'll keep my eyes open, and perhaps give you a shout when I get some time to come down and see one.

Thanks

Perry

Guys,

Thanks for all the suggestions, but unless I am wrong, nearly all the boats you are talking about have fibreglass hulls and are not the 'toughest' in the world. I really want something that will last. I love the look of the spitfire, but again, what are the hulls made from.

I am looking for fun, not competition, and something that will last being treated badly (there you go, I said it!).

Any furhter suggestions! Keep em coming.

Thanks

Perry

Perry,

It sounds like the D16 is for you if you want a boat you can abuse...

Perry, I haven't experienced any chips in the Topcat yet (unlike the Dart18), but the Topcat hulls are a lot more rounded than the Dart18's which are prone to catch on just about any hard surface, and much more solid than the Dart18's.

They also use keel shoes which are fitted and left on whilst sailing and offer great protection underneath and would probably suit dragging up a concrete slip. Mike Harrison can get you all the construction info you need if you wanted to follow it up, he's on:

mailto:mike.harrison@compcut.de - mike.harrison@compcut.de

If you got some info from him I guess at the very least it'll give you an insight into how one type of boat is built and you can use for comparison purposes.

Cheers,

Andy

Gozzza

I've been a bit busy lately but back in touch now. Happy to see you are the proud owner of a K2 Topcat.Welcome and have lots of fun,let us know how you get on.

Have you been out or  race it yet ?

Yeah Y&Y. Seen the Topcat review in the Dinghy Magazine...But what's up or why not with Y&Y there on your door step?

Mickymouse

Hey mickymouse where've you been? Wie geht es? Yes I took the plunge and bought a K2.

I'm kind of conscious about hijacking Perry's thread so maybe we should chat private or even start a seperate thread, but briefly I haven't raced the K2, having fun blasting around though. One of our club members sailed my K2 in the Nore Race in the Thames Estuary (singlehanded in the end as his crew was taken ill the night before) and scooped a 1st in the non-assymetric multihull class. He'll be out at the Topcat regatta at Lake Garda next month, look out for him and say hello, he's the only British K2 entered, but you can't miss him, he wears a red bandana!!

Andy

Andy.

Hey guys,

Please don't worry. The thread was to give me a feel for what cats are out there. All thsi talk of topcats is very interesting, and makes me think its well worth a look. Please by all means don't feel you have to avoid this thread at risk of hijacking it! I might just put a question or two in from time to time!

Thanks for the responses.

Perry

`Gozzza

I'v been working / playing boats away and living it up, the pounds are up to but to heck with it and keep.Well done to the red bandana i give him a pat on the back at Garda.Do you have the assymetric as an extre on your K2?. I' v just been looking at Chapman sands website in the Topcat Gallery looks like your really having fun back there,off to the worlds too , its all happening at CSSC.

Hijacking Perry sounds better but mybe he jumps on board aTopcat by you, be careful he hasn`t got his gun's with him,he likes things bulletproof .

Keep blasting around.

Mickymouse

M Mouse,

I don't have an assym on the K2 - strange to hear you call it that, I know Topcat refer to it as a "Reacher". Could be the next step though - fanatastic fun reaching back and forth along the Southend-on-Sea shoreline waving at the Essex girls.

Yes the Topcat K1 world championships - I believe Topcat are looking to get ISAF recognition and need so many (a dozen or so I think) different countries represented. Tragically as you probably know from the ITCA website ( http://www.itca.de - www.itca.de ), the only British helm entered (Simon White) was killed in a car crash last month. I didn't know him, but by all accounts he seems to have been an extremely popular guy and will be sorely missed.

After talking to one of the Topcat reps, we're trying to get a team to represent GBR. Finding an available team to do it is proving pretty difficult. Calor Gas are sponsoring the K2 and have offered to sponsor the K1 also and make a big dent in the team's expenses, and we've got a strong possibility in an almost retired Hurricane & ex-Dart sailor, but it's a lot of hard work arranging it all at this short notice. I really hope we can pull it off in the memory of Simon and for the good of British cat sailing generally.

Chapman Sands SC - a lot of people don't realise it, but we were founded in 1957 by amongst others, the Prout brothers who built the world's first production cat - the Shearwater III. The club has seen a lot better times turned out some good sailors and has gone through a slump in recent years, but we're re-invigorating it now and getting back to our roots - catamaran sailing in the Thames Estuary.

You might be able to help here - with such buoyant hulls the Topcat has a relatively high freeboard (if that's the right word) compared to the Dart18 say - a fat git like me has a bit of a problem climbing back on board following a mishap, do you guys have any cunning devices that I haven't seen on any of the documentation?

Come to that, have any other other cat sailors got any ideas on getting back aboard - except that is for bribing the crew to pull you up or having a rope step-up dangling from the mast step - tried those already.

Andy.

hi Perry

As Andy said the skeg's / keel's are rounded so is the bow and gunnels,the deck is moulted on the middle section,so the Topcat hasno sq edges to chip.As all three points keel deck coners are rounded and moulded in the one mould together this give the hulls more sturdiness than some others.The constructor is grp but for sure the gel doesn't chip, sorry to say its not bulletproof .

I' ve been racing and cursing Topcats for meny years here and were i sail the wind most times is onshore.The problem is kids are aways in the water when im comeing in and there's no room ,so i must pick my spot roller reef the jib pull the main to the middle to slow down and sail start up the shingle, i shourd take the main down out to sea but that has its probs to.The club next door have a concrete slip,the Topcat there all have the keel protectors silcone on witch runs the full length of the hulls,thay make the same as me. TIP IS not to stand on the slip on a windy day. But nothing happens to the skegs. ITs not right to make a recovery in this way.But have you ever been in the water holding your lovely boat waiting for your crew to get the trailer,only to look up to see a reaching cat (Dart 20)with its rudders up, helm and crew gobs wide open,it was OK thay got me.

Mickymouse        &n bsp;       

hi cully ben, about 30 sec to get it down, but rolling it, so its nicely out the way and dosen't blow away a lot longer. It's no problem to come in on the jib when you got the room to come in and thats the right way to do it. But i`v got 6/7m of room with people swimming (and it`s deep) then about 20m or so of tree`s over hanging then a sandy /shingle gap again and so on.I have ended up in the tree`s more time`s then i`m going to say 

Some that belong to the club take the jib down out to see and come in on the jib but it very slippery under the water line and very green that ends up all over you.You cant lift the boat up to get the traler under no grip and to get the boat out well, you end up on your bum, so thay sail strat up it only 5/6m and step off but when windy it can be more like 20m but then thay have about 2/3 m then it`s over the top traler under at that point and down the hill. hope that hels to answer the ?    

mouse

Sorry it`Curly ben, and see in my letter is german i ment lake.

Mickymouse

Andy when the time comes get yourself a assym..for the K2 its more fun cruising about in 2/3wind and the girls will do more than wave thay will whant to play with your new toy .saw assym for the 1st time in your web.The other word i reed in a paper from england was YOU BITCH tryed it on my girlfrindshe understourd i was going to get it any way been on the pc to long. ISAF, to come a international boat i thought it was 8 nations without looking ,any of you guys know

For sure Andreas (president of ITCA) will ask for a moment hash at the worlds for Simon,1st time i was having a beer with him and crew Dave was in sarigerne 2003 your not wrong he was a nice guy, he was a airline pilot i think for him it would have been safer in the air on this day.Im sure Chapman Sands can pull this retired sailor out of the chair it must be for Simon i know the Topcat reps will do what thay can from this end but i can understand the difficulty. Who is he and how old ?.

Curly bBen you must know the answer to Andy`s and my problem then about ISAF.

Most of the time I sail the north end of Ammersee South Germany, I`m not at the club there. So don`t use there slip but a cleen under the water line would help them to make the right recovery. But who am I to tell them, there been doing it for year`s with the Topcat`s. But there do have the keel pertictors on.

Most of the time i sail main and jib on the K2 single handed when the wind is to much, I roller reef the jib in.You can race the topcat K2 without jib single handed have a look at  http://www.cs-sc.org.uk - www.cs-sc.org.uk on the Topcat banner Gallery.

Ihave to come in that way I`ve got into probs doing it the right way. With the main2m up the mast the rest on the trap. When I don`t hit that gap, then I`m in the trees, the water is deep with an onshore wind, then I can`t get the cat out of the trees, very  ...

gozzza,your ? Idont think the Topcat main beem is any higher than the Dart 18 if you take a messament from the ground to the top of the main beem. But the Volume is more so therefor it floats higher out of the water. We have what we call a Rente line to help us back on board (old boys line of English) it look`s like a Bungee line with two clip`s one each end, one clip's around the bow chain plate and one round the mast step. I hate to say it iv got one but age and the lack of power comes to us all in the end and im 100k,  but it much easyer to get back on the trap.. ,you just put your foot or knee on it and stand up.When your on your own, then for me it'a must.  hmmm can we ask what the mishap was.

Mouse