Control Tweaking
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Beginner questions
Forum Discription: Advice for those who are new to sailing
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9174
Printed Date: 11 May 25 at 7:39am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Control Tweaking
Posted By: kurio99
Subject: Control Tweaking
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 1:05am
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Silly question. You're tweaking a control (outhaul, vang, cun., etc), but how do you know that you have made a real improvement in speed? I know that the pros rig two identical boats with differing settings and run lots of trials. How about us ordinary mortals? What's your secret to getting the controls set just right? Is it just lots of races and moving your setting a little bit each race to see which one puts you consistently higher in the rankings? Are you literally marking your settings for different wind speeds (ie. you check the wind forecast and then move the sheet to a particular mark)? |
Replies:
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 6:53am
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two boat testing isn't just for pros- all you need is a good friend of about the same ability, and a day when there's either no racing or you agree to blow it off. It can be fun and really useful- though of course it does mean sharing your secrets with potentially one of your closest rivals! Still, better to be fighting each other at the front of the fleet than the back.
------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: bert
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 1:57pm
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You could always sail with a GPS with a speed function,Attach it to the centre line of the boat near the mast so you will get a better true reading.This should help you find out if you have made an adjustment that improves or slows you & then it is up to you to use your knowlegde as required. ------------- Phantom 1181 AC-227 IC 304 blaze / halo 586 |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 2:34pm
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Do you find your GPS that accurate and reliable for the small variations we're looking at? Tweaking might gain you 1%, whereas a trivial gust will spurt you 20% faster. We tried two-boat tuning on the Medway when a pair of new Hartley Wayfarers arrived. Gave up after a couple of hours when the conclusion was that the tww boats were rarely sailing in the same wind, even when quite close together. Probably works at sea with an onshore wind, but otherwise - I wonder. I think a lot of the time you can feel the effect (Luke) much better. Try knocking off a tight kicker on a reach, for example, and the boat leaps forward. Equally, if pulling on String A makes the boat feel easier to handle, then it is probably quicker too. Not always, but often. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: kevg
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 2:38pm
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Hopefully someone (builder/sail maker/Class assoication) has done the work for you so if you can find a tunning guide download it. Then mark all your control lines with calribration marks so you can reproduce them. Sail to these guides until you are top 10 in the nationals! |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 06 Apr 12 at 9:58am
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+1 KevG But also try extremes - to find what feels right you also need to know what feels wrong. So sal the beat with the outhaul right off and right on etc.
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Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 06 Apr 12 at 10:26am
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yes, I'm going through this with the megabyte. The rig is quite different to what I'm used to, so I'm mostly experimenting with what looks and feels right - so lots of straight line sailing and marking of lines. I would use a gps if I had one, but probably only on the longer stretches like at Grafham, rather than the short shifty stuff at Hunts. It's also worth getting someone in a safety boat to look at the rig from outisde the boat. If they can film it for you so much the better, assuming of course you're recording your settings, plus the wind strength.
------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 06 Apr 12 at 10:32am
Completely agree with that comment. Its really important to know how the boat feels sailed with a poor set up, so you can recognise that quickly and avoid it happening. Some may say that I've been doing that for years on my boat and its now time to move on!  ------------- |
Posted By: kurio99
Date Posted: 07 Apr 12 at 1:52pm
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For my initial settings for a dinghy, correct me if I am wrong... Cunningham - Force 1 - loose with some wrinkling Force 5 - tight as possible Outhaul - Force 1 - loose with some wrinkling Force 5 - tight as possible Vang (off-wind) - Force 1 - loose Force 5 - tight as possible Vang (up-wind) - Force 1 - requires tuning Force 5 - tight as possible |
Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 07 Apr 12 at 6:25pm
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Flat water or lumpy?
------------- Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard" Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile" |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 08 Apr 12 at 10:07pm
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It just feels "right" There's no other way to describe it. You'll have a nice clean looking sail, no horrible creases, reasonably tight leech and it'll feel neutral on the helm and connected to the water. If you feel like you're sailing a bucking bronco you have something wrong.
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Posted By: NickM
Date Posted: 08 Apr 12 at 11:16pm
In general terms, yes, but it depends on the boat. For example, in very light airs you might be better off with a flatter sail so that the air flow is not "stalled" by the bag in the sail, so maybe the outhaul will need to be tightened a bit. For your "initial settings" I suggest you check out the tuning guide for your class or a popular class sailmaker. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 09 Apr 12 at 4:48pm
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Go to an open meeting or better still coaching day. Having a dozen boats to compare speed with is much better than your usual 2 or 3 at your home club. Look at other people's boats. Take photo's perhaps. Two baot tuning does work really well, but you need a fairly steady breeze, not swirling around the trees and nonsense. You want to be trying to work with the settings used by the good guys, not just some bloke in your club who does a bit better than you. He may be mostly beating you by compass work or local knowledge rather than actual speed through the water. Don't obsess with minor controls to the exclusion of the mainsheet and boat balance (note to self...) |
Posted By: NorthernMonkey
Date Posted: 10 Apr 12 at 1:04pm
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In addition to 2 (or more) boat training, open meetings and coaching, which are well worth getting involved in, try this, it's very visual. Set your boat up on land in a suitable breeze. Not to windy or the boat may blow over. Attach a piece of shock cord to the end of the boom and to the transom somewhere. The shock cord should be partially stretched when the sail is 'set' on a the point of sailing that you are interested in. Now try pulling (and easing) things. Outhaul, cunningham, vang and even the jibsheet. You will notice that the boom will move both in and out. If the boom moves closer to the centreline of the boat, the 'power' of the rig will have been reduced. If the boom moves out the power of the rig will be increased, causing the shock cord to stretch more. There are occasions when you will want to add power and decrease power on all points of sailing. This technique is very visual and will let you see first hand what is happening. One of the most surprising things to observe is the effect the jib has over the power of the whole rig. Not just sheet tension, but halyard too. Try it. It even works when the wind isn't constant. You will see the effect immediately. EDIT: Use the advice given above and in various books as the basis for these trials. They are all correct, but all classes, rigs and sailplans will react with with varying results to each control. |
Posted By: kurio99
Date Posted: 10 Apr 12 at 2:56pm
That's brilliant!
 You can really finetune the settings without the complexity of waves and boat heeling. I could even run a wind gauge for real wind speeds for the different settings. As you say, this works best with lighter breezes, since you don't want your boat tumbling across the park. |
Posted By: ham4sand
Date Posted: 10 Apr 12 at 10:15pm
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on the topic of controls, whats a nice splicable control line that could be used for kicker? john ------------- John Hamilton cherub 2645 - cheese before bedtime cherub 3209 - anatidaephobia laser 176847 - kiss this [FORSALE] |
Posted By: TomB
Date Posted: 11 Apr 12 at 8:44am
we use a excel racing pro 4mm. we taper and then end to end splice ------------- 49er 884 "its win or swim attitude boys" -awesome aussie skiff commentator |