Pro Grip
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9143
Printed Date: 18 Jul 25 at 6:46am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Pro Grip
Posted By: Daniel Holman
Subject: Pro Grip
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 11:27am
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I am a pro grip virgin - applied some last weekend, everything clean and dry. It has started lifting off already, and oddly it seemed that the glue is sticking to the rack but not the foam. I didn't key the rack as I figured it was a conact adhesive for plug and play use. Any ideas? Shouldm I try it again using filthy evil Evo stik contact glue?! Dan |
Replies:
Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 11:46am
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When you put it on a rack it naturally starts to flatten itself back out - or worse into its pre-rolled shape. Top tip: When you glue it onto a rack wrap the whole lot in cling film nice and tight until the glue has gone off! ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 12:23pm
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Top tip number 2, put masking tape over any areas you do not want to glue, test fit the pro grip to make sure it fits the shape left untaped exactly. This way you can get glue right up to the edge of the area to be gripped whcih helps stop the corners lifting. as with most things, round the corners slightly to stop it lifting there. My old 700 used to have electrical tape over the edges of the rack tape to stop it lifting too, it held up amazingly well and i never had to replace any of it. I didnt dare remove it because I knew it would only fall off if I tried to replace it! ------------- |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 12:42pm
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Surface prep, if you can do it, always helps adhesion. Even if it is just a damn good clean, rinse and dry to make sure there's no residues. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 12:59pm
You answered your own question there. I never use any thing else. As others have said. Clean the surfaces. Sand the surfaces for a key. I have never sanded the pro grip though. Evo on both boat and pro grip. Having trial fitted pro grip. Not to much Evo. Use a spreader. Make sure they have dried and stick together. Get someone to help with long or big sheets. As you don't get a second chance. Sand the edges of the pro grip back to help stop your arse catching the edge od the pro grip and making it lift. And use electrical tape if you want. The cling film method sounds good but I have never done that. But it also sounds like Neptune is using that method when not waiting for the Evo to go off? This would give you some positional time a suppose? ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 1:09pm
Exactly the problem I had, bloody stuff. It didn't last one outing. The adhesive part stayed stuck to the boat, it was the progrip that parted from the glue......so no amount of surface prep is going to solve that problem.
Evo stick worked for me in the end. I had to remove all the old adhesive first (white spirit) and that was a right messy pain.
If the purpose of self adhesive pro-grip is to provide grip on the side of a boat for trapezing then it would be fair to say it's not fit for purpose.
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Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 1:15pm
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Great stuff, cheers guys. I will redo my progrip once I have regained the will to live following the failure of my 1st attempt.
Dan |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 1:38pm
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Dan, I fitted some pro-grip to the side of the Cherub before Christmas using evostick spray adhesive. (Really easy to apply compared to the spread on method) and despite applying the same grip, using the same adhesive to different sides of the same boat... one side is stuck firm and the other side has lifted. So this can only prove one thing... getting it to stay attached is all down to luck!
You still down at Netley this year? ------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: dkr1
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 1:52pm
Try Evostick remover rather than white spriit (available from all good hardware stores and event B&Q). Ive found old Evostick comes off no problem using this.
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Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 2:00pm
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I bought some d'bond from LDC - scary stuff but it just melted the glue and it wiped off. ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 2:01pm
What it proves is more likely to be that on the side that has lifted the aerosol was chucking out more propellant than glue. Due to the can getting low on glue. It gave you the impression that you had the same amount of glue on the surfaces, but did you? The only way to be sure is to use a tub of Evo and a spreader tool. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 2:41pm
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New can, still plenty left. Defs luck rather than any other quantifiable variable which is the deciding factor. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: rogue
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 3:07pm
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whatever you do don't buy the sticky-back progrip... waste of money. I'm with Jack on this, contact adhesive, spread all over- messy job, but that's how I got grip down on the deck of my MPS. Weirdly the few bubbles I got seemed to go away between the weekends, which was a pleasant surprise as I thought I'd really cocked it up! ------------- |
Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 4:16pm
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LDC use a 2 pack version of evo stick for slot gaskets, has stuck really well.
But in fitting it did melt the pot I was using for mixing SO IT WENT ALL OVER THE HULL. Acetone shifted it but it was very messy. Agree with your comment Dan about self adhesive pro grip being useless. waste of space. ------------- Gordon Lossc |
Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 6:53pm
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Good info chaps. I was contemplating a hybrid approach where I mask and prep, peel back and evostik the boundaries, then pin back down and tape. Trouble is total removal will necessitate a lot of restringing and more f*cking pro grip.
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Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 8:56pm
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another tip if you decide to sand the edges is to use masking tape again, and build up 5 or six layers around the edges of the progrip, then when you sand down the progrip you always leave about 1mm of thickness. When I last did the sanding method I left wobbly lines down one side of the job where it sanded faster than I expected. ------------- |
Posted By: dogslife
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 9:59pm
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[QUOTE=rogue]whatever you do don't buy the sticky-back progrip... waste of money. + 1
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Posted By: tickler
Date Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 9:19am
| This may not apply to the current aplication but it could be usefull in the future. As a retired (thank God) joiner, when sticking laminate, formica etc on worktops or bar counters etc, spread evo stick onto both surfaces, allow to dry as in the instructions. Then lay sheets of brown paper on the area to be covered. Now put the laminate in place sticky side down and position it carefully. Now slide the brown paper out and stick the two to gether. Many people using impact adhesive never let it dry sufficiently and once you have tried to stick something with the glue to wet it takes ages to go off. Mistakes with worktops can be very expensive! |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 9:29am
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sand + varnish or sand + deck paint ? ... I believe the marine trade have even invented expensive sand, called "non-slip additive" |
Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 9:53am
not trendy enough these days. I know my dad used to use tons of it on the floor of our marauder years ago. used to rip the hell out of anything other than a beer mat ------------- Everything I say is my opinion, honest |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 1:00pm
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aaahhh beer mats sewn onto red overalls and those funny bubble-wrap bouyancy aids... a golden age! sand + varnish.... it may not be trendy, or come in 4 shades of grey, and you can't sail in bare feet afterwards, but it was effective IIRC |
Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 1:21pm
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my best beer mat was blackthorn cider, a lovely shade of puke yellow and Brown. yep I had red overalls too and a red musto bubble buoyancy aid. still got it actually with half the bubbles still intact ------------- Everything I say is my opinion, honest |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 1:45pm
| classic.. make sure those bubbles actually have air in them, I got my old BA out of the attic some years ago during a house move and was amazed to see more bubbles inflated than I remembered, turns out the plastic had just 'frozen' in that shape with age, was a lovely shade of pink too |
Posted By: fudheid
Date Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 1:59pm
+1  i was a blackthorn on one cheek and a strongbow on the other! could'nt afford the bubble musto Ba tho.... ------------- Cheers you only me from over the sea...... |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 2:16pm
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You beermat boys need to go get a room... As for Pro Grip why is there nothing that does the job better? In a world of snowboard stomp pads and surfing traction pads that all seem to grip OK has no-one come up with something better yet? I guess you could look at that 3M double side sheet stuff that works quite well or back in the day I seem to recall factory application of windsurf deck grip pads used to be facilitated by loctite 416 which is an Industrial superglue. (Superglue however does get reduced in strength 46% by water I seem to recall) anyway that's my three happorth. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 2:55pm
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Cyanoacrylate adhesives, all of them, have particularly poor moisture resistance. I am surprised at any application in the marine world at all.
Edit: and looking at the MSDS for Loctite 416, it is described as 80-100% ethyl 2-cyanoacrylate. Cheap superglue is just 100% ethyl 2-cyanoacrylate. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 6:29pm
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Ah, the old beer mat on the arse.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37279784@N02/4025693797/in/set-72157622486497168 - http://www.flickr.com/photos/37279784@N02/4025693797/in/set-72157622486497168
Very fetching
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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 6:59pm
Umm... heavy. Better to mix epoxy and roller it on. And then sprinkle sugar over it. When the epoxy is dry you wash the boat down. The sugar dissolves and you are left with the sharp peaks and troughs left where the sugar was. Nice an light. Nice and grippy. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: timeintheboat
Date Posted: 27 Mar 12 at 7:30pm
IIRC those red musto bubble jackets could easily be "adapted " to be a weight jacket - handy when weight jackets got banned in Lasers (Anyone remember the protest at the 1984 (or was it 1994?) Nationals at RTBYC?). Mind you mine sort evolved into a weight jacket over time. Last used 5 years ago and now disposed of.
------------- Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else |
Posted By: hollandsd
Date Posted: 03 Apr 12 at 12:47pm
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http://www.algeos.com/renia-syntic-vinyl-cement.html This stuff is supposed to be really good and its designed to stick the stuff. Ill be doing my boat with it this weekend. It works like contact adhesive but it allows repositioning before you heat it up to activate it. Dan ------------- Laser 184084 Tasar 3501 RS600 698 RS600 782 |
Posted By: hollandsd
Date Posted: 06 Apr 12 at 9:03pm
I have begun the gripping of the contender today, note the hair dryer to activate the adhesive and also to help get it to curve round those tight corners. ------------- Laser 184084 Tasar 3501 RS600 698 RS600 782 |
Posted By: tickler
Date Posted: 07 Apr 12 at 8:44am
| .....we had that carpet in 1958...... |
Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 07 Apr 12 at 9:45am
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I was told you should hose that much progrip down before getting it weighed at an event as it soaks up so much water you can skip some lead! ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 07 Apr 12 at 12:57pm
Is that right? As far as I'm aware, boat weigh-ins should be done with the boat in a dry state.
In any case, if progrip takes up any significant amount of water, it's not like you would be able to exploit it when you are actually sailing the boat when it will get wet.
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Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 07 Apr 12 at 6:22pm
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I understand Containers can be wet weighed at least you can 'clean' it first! No point dragging more weight round than you need to. ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: hollandsd
Date Posted: 07 Apr 12 at 9:27pm
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This is a closed cell EVA foam, not strictly pro grip, but £10 a sheet rather than £30 It doesent "soak up water" as many seem to think, it will absorb a small ammount through use but not more than a few grams over that area. Ill setup a new thread with a few more photos. Dan ------------- Laser 184084 Tasar 3501 RS600 698 RS600 782 |
Posted By: tick
Date Posted: 23 Nov 12 at 7:03am
| ???????? "This is luxury you can afford by Cyril Lord" |
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 27 Nov 12 at 1:54pm
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Dan, can I ask where you got the sheets from please? I had a look on Algeos website but couldn't seem to find anything other than insoles for orthapaedic shoes, and I'd need a few of those to do my cockpit floor! ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: iwsmithuk
Date Posted: 27 Nov 12 at 2:28pm
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Jamie.
If it's for your 300 consider using surf wax. My 300 cockpit was coated with it when I first got it and I've continued to use it. Very good and much easier than progrip etc. Can look a bit grey and grubby though.
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Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 27 Nov 12 at 2:43pm
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Progrip is better at hiding things though ;-) ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 27 Nov 12 at 3:03pm
And it acts as a cushion when you fall over too and is better for your knees downwind ------------- Everything I say is my opinion, honest |
Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 27 Nov 12 at 3:11pm
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I dont know you lot with your nasty red Musto copy of the original air pocket buoyancy vest Flobberchock in a tasteful orange!
I think double diamond was the choice for beermats. Awful stuff. ------------- Gordon Lossc |