Often but not always - even if you do it is the idea of having 'culture' of no protesting unless absolutely neccessary. My experience of 5 years Keelboat racing (aprox 40 races) is that I have seen only one protest and so it is hardly frivelous, but there have been instances of reckelss behaviour (again not many).

What club is asking for a £50 protest fee? Name and shame.

Of course protest fees are wrong. Human nature being what it is, you only get rules observance when there is a realistic threat of a protest and DSQ. In keelboats especially, even small bangs are expensive and potentially dangerous. You pay your race entrance fees or membership fee for club racing and, if required, a protest committee is part of the "service" you are getting from the club.

There are more subtle ways of discouraging protests: also wrong. I once spent half an afternoon and evening queueing to win and open and shut protest on a port/starboard incident, in which the guy clearly believed I couldn't be bothered to protest. And what did he get? A 1% time penalty. I think if you choose not to do your turns and lose a protest, it should be DSQ. That encourages people to accept alternative penalties.

I've raced keelboats for 20 years in several classes and I can assure you that many fleets are not nearly so well behaved.

Agree, however I feel that most want to get round without incident, but the with the protection of knowing that the rules, for more dangerous or difficult occassions, are there to support them.

Haven't seen the regs for this years big Jamboree just yet, so will hold back on namimg and shaming for now

My dinghy club used to have a fee of £5 per protest with the money going to the lifeboat.  Since then, there have been very few protesters at all. 

The problem is that when you go to an open event and sail the way you do at club level, you find yourself in the protest room without any practise of what to do or say so you're most likely to get a DSQ.

I know everybody wants to be friendly at club level and not have enemies but the rules are not there to be broken because "no-one protests anyway".

What are other peoples experiences with club level protests?

I've been in 5! (2 as witnesses), and i'd say avoid them at all costs- especially at opens where the club members don't understand the rules fully, or how to conduct a hearing, as no-one protests at their club racing. i've won/lost 50:50 in protests , as peoples versions of what happened on the water is often very different, and it's one persons word against anothers. I also found that protest strategy helps, so often a protest veteran can win, by putting his/her case forward better, even though they were in the wrong.

I've won all mine (four in 20 years) but I wouldn't go into one I didn't fully expect to win: I'd rather do my turns. People do often have different recollections on what happened (to put it charitably) and it helps a lot if you understand who has the onus to prove their case in a given situation. If the onus is on you and the other person is shouting "protest" with no other witnesses, you aren't likely to win a protest no matter how certain you are you were in the right; better to do your turns and get on with the race.

Practice and familiarity with the process definitely helps and to that extent, clubs that discourage protests do their members no favours when they go to opens and championships. The most unpleasant protest I've been involved with was one where the other party was totally clueless and convinced they were in the right when there wasn't an earthly chance they were going to win. They had hurt one of my crew in the collision so there was no way I was letting them off. 

My club is currently trying to encourage protests and I nearly obliged the other day although mine was an appeal for redress - the RO had written the course differently to the picture drawn next to it and DSQ me for missing out a mark.

How many people actually have a current rule book? You can't know (on the water) if you have a strong case if you don't know the rules.

Same here, but there are so many complications and exceptions that catch many people out.

Check out http://www.finckh.org/rspiel/indexe.htm - http://www.finckh.org/rspiel/indexe.htm  for an interactive rules quiz- to see how much you all know!

Good link.  Well worth having a look at.

The bit about the rules book and who owns one, I do have to admit that I dont own a current rules book but I own an old one and have updated it. It is definatly a good idea to read up on the rules but even if you know the rules you arent neciseraly guaranteed the correct outcome you need to know who the onus is on to prove what.

And Protest fees are so unbelevably wrong it is changing the attitude of sailing from being a self policing sport to one where you have to go out of your way to do the correct thing and to prove that some one else was in the wrong. If there is no threat of being protested out then most people will not bother to correct a mistake or will blatantly go out of their way not to follow the rules under the assumption that no one will do anythgn about it.

Have just got the sailing regs through, as far as I can see it doesn't mention the return of the deposit or not, never mind

14          PROTESTS

14.1          Protests must be lodged with the Race Committee at the Race Office at ****, or the main office at ****, on correct forms available from those offices together with a deposit of £50.00, within 2 hours of the protesting boat crossing the finish line on her last race that day.

14.2   In addition to the requirements of RRS 61.1 (a) protesting boats shall, immediately after finishing, inform the Race Officer on the Finishing Committee Boat of their intention to protest and the sail number(s) of the boat(s) concerned.

14.3          Protests will be heard at the earliest opportunity after the race.

14.4          Notices of protests will be posted on the official notice board.

I would question the legality of protest fees, as they are quite obviously designed to prevent the RRS being correctly implemented. You should initiate a test case and take it to appeal. The cost of financing protest committees (thirsty critters these judges!) should be borne by all competitors and not solely by those competitors who feel that they have been the victim of an infringement. The principle appears to be in total contradiction with the spirit of the Rules.

However, I believe it is traditional to demand a refundable deposit for protests against measurements and rating certificates.

I firmly believe that if in any racing context there are neither boats taking penalties nor protests then the rules are probably being ignored or wilfuly infringed.

I have suggested in my local club that all boats should pay a protest levy at the beginning of the season. This would be refunded if a boat lodges a protest during the season (with possibly a partial refund if a boat protests on the water and the protestee takes a penalty).

Half the profits from the levy would be used for rules and race management training - the other half would be used to run a dinner for those members of the club actively involved in race management.

Since I started running rules evenings there have been a renaissance in  protesting - we find it is very good for bar takings. Now looking forward to the results of my fist appeal!

Gordon

we don't charge for a first protest but do if there is an appeal ( to stop people endlessly appealing I suppose).

If it's a couple of quid and goes to rnli then I've got no real problem with this. Even allowing for the money spent on keel boat racing, £50 seems excessive...

I thought the appeal wfee was separate matter - being charged by the National Authority who hears the appeal.

I remain totally opposed to to charging for initial protests - it would be like paying to appeal to the umpire in a cricket match.

Gordon