Print Page | Close Window

21st Century Event

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9043
Printed Date: 18 Jan 26 at 8:12am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: 21st Century Event
Posted By: G.R.F.
Subject: 21st Century Event
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 12:55pm
The thing we should have instead of that sail juice event for lipstick on coffin dodgers, is a premier series open only to boats that have been designed and built this century.

A half decent showcase of all that is modern and progressive about sailing, no idea if we have a big enough population for it, but it could at least offer an aspirational handicap circuit for all these pro jocks and semi pro ringers to show what modern boats are capable of rather than have them shoring up old dross.

It could also provide somewhere to go if you've failed to line the appropriate pockets to get on the international class approval list, so small builders could benefit.

They might also leave the genuine lovers of everything that is tired old and has been to stay that way.

Just a thought.


But in the season eh? Make it at least halfway attractive to humans, rather than aliens from the planet grim.


-------------
https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/



Replies:
Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 1:01pm
Hi Grf
Would foiling moths count because the Int Moth has been around for years?
same would apply to Int14 etc all other development boats but to rules dating back years.
Regards
Gordon

-------------
Gordon
Lossc


Posted By: hum3
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 1:01pm
I presume you mean SMODs then? How would classify the development classes? What about older one design classes that have made significant development, like the B14 adopting a carbon rig?
 
All a bit subjective really...
 
EDIT - Gordon beat me to it!
 
EDIT 2 - GRF - you seem to think that there are significant problems with some new classes too (eg your views on the 500) so are you just talking about an event where you choose the boats you like the look of?


Posted By: Jon711
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 1:06pm
Greame, great idea, but that would disallow soo many boats, not sure even the Blaze would comply!!

How about anything designed since 1980? May open up the potential a bit.... And sailing mid summer (Or what we seem to get in this country!), gets my vote....

Jon

-------------
Blaze 711


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 1:12pm
NO, not subjective, the rule would be that the boat or class if you must insist on this stupid 'class' tag has to have been designed and built as a make or model this side of the millennium. I guess that could apply to some brand names of the flying stick insect but if it were down to me it would be a Short Series, the races would be triangle sausage and one discard from the event, so if the wind is light the stick insects would have to race and take their pasting. That way they'd have to design their way out of the hole they're in.

The idea being the goal of a modern boat that sails well in all conditions and suits all types of course, rather than the current trend of designing the course and the event to suit b**tardised designs that don't work.

Put up some half decent prize money like we did for speed week and have different divisions, single hander, twin etc..

So no if it's an old minger mutton trying to be lamb, do one, there's plenty for them already.


-------------
https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by Jon711

Greame, great idea, but that would disallow soo many boats, not sure even the Blaze would comply!!


No it wouldn't they'd have to launch something new, oh let me think, like a Blaze with a kite.


All that talent from the Sailjuice Series is wasted, they should run a summer series say two on res's and three on estuaries .

As I see it, Boats like the Alto, Aura, D1, Icon, Rs100,500, and anything else modern gets to enter and new stuff encouraged, with  young guys getting some credibility in winning it, with a manufacturers prize, a la F1.

All off the same start line, maybe split between two and single sails.

21st Century Sailing Association.

Join here.


-------------
https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/


Posted By: bferry
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 1:38pm
Sounds like a good idea to show what new classes were formed in the last 12 years.  It would also be interesting to compare boat class numbers over the last 50 or so years, to determine the most active boat design years.
 
Re-the regatta, the laser was launched in 1971 and would therefore be out...but what about the 8.1 (2007).  Thinking along the same lines, how about boats that had new [GRP] hulls launched post 2000?


-------------
Bernard
Vareo 249
Miracle 2818
Malta


Posted By: gbrspratt
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 1:41pm
pre 2000 vs post 2000???

-------------


Posted By: bferry
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 1:53pm
I meant post 2000 like Miracle GRP hull launched a couple of years ago.

-------------
Bernard
Vareo 249
Miracle 2818
Malta


Posted By: Jon711
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 2:01pm
Good point Bernard, so a late Mark 2 or Mark 3 Blaze would be eligible - I can compete!!! yeah!!

jon

-------------
Blaze 711


Posted By: bferry
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 2:06pm
Yes, and that could entice other 'constructors' to launch new composite hulls for older classes potentially reviving them.

-------------
Bernard
Vareo 249
Miracle 2818
Malta


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 2:08pm
News designs, new classes and new boats - so anything not complying with all 3 would be out, even a blaze with a kite, and Mackay FX, as they are not new boats.

Sounds like a great idea, but might be short on numbers?


-------------
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 2:10pm
GRF will be thrilled, the Winder Mirror qualifies by this logic, as should the FRP Ent, GP14 and perhaps new construction derivatives of the Wayfarer and that Y&Y forum fave, the light-speed Albacore!


....crosses fingers and hopes someones' done something 'new' to the Furball since 2000....


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 2:16pm
The "New incarnation" regatta would have to be a totally separate event.

-------------
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 2:22pm
Er - sorry.

New Designs it says.

That does not mean tarted up Pigs.

I'm trying to come up with an idea that will drag your sorry screaming luddite backsides into the 21st century, thereby endowing your youth with light and hope for a better future, instead of forcing them into their grandads coffins.

The criterion should be designed and built since 2000.

I.E it's a 21st century design.

A modern sailboat. Not an old tub made nearly modern.

Yes sadly it would be short on numbers, which is exactly what we're all concerned about and goes some way to explaining why.

So give folk some aspirations and see where it takes us, what have we got to lose? There are plenty of events for the old dross, this could take us in a new direction with a bit of vim and vigour and less whinging.



-------------
https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/


Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 2:26pm
so its going to be v twin against ........................ nothing!
at least thats one way it can win a race!Wink

do think the whinging comment, is a little rich coming from g.r.f.


-------------


Posted By: bferry
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 2:28pm

So this would be an event for the elite, those who have a pocket full of cash and can afford a modern boat.  Why not make it boats designed between 2011 and present to make it even more restrictive.

 

It seems to me that the whole point of this forum is to encourage sailing and not restrict it.  However, if the event were to be paired up with something like a class revival event or a pre 1950’s class then that would be justifiable.



-------------
Bernard
Vareo 249
Miracle 2818
Malta


Posted By: bferry
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by ex laser

so its going to be v twin against ........................ nothing!
at least that one way it can win a race!Wink
That's what I meant about 2011 to present although GRF would have a hard time competing against the likes of the new olympic skiff designs such as the Aura or Rebel! (assuming the Vtwin will be a 2 person tub)

-------------
Bernard
Vareo 249
Miracle 2818
Malta


Posted By: haroosh
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

NO, not subjective, the rule would be that the boat or class if you must insist on this stupid 'class' tag has to have been designed and built as a make or model this side of the millennium. I guess that could apply to some brand names of the flying stick insect but if it were down to me it would be a Short Series, the races would be triangle sausage and one discard from the event, so if the wind is light the stick insects would have to race and take their pasting. That way they'd have to design their way out of the hole they're in.

The idea being the goal of a modern boat that sails well in all conditions and suits all types of course, rather than the current trend of designing the course and the event to suit b**tardised designs that don't work.

Put up some half decent prize money like we did for speed week and have different divisions, single hander, twin etc..

So no if it's an old minger mutton trying to be lamb, do one, there's plenty for them already.
 
'The idea being the goal of a modern boat that sails well in all conditions and suits all types of course, rather than the current trend of designing the course and the event to suit b**tardised designs that don't work.'
 
Thats no way to talk about the V Twin........


-------------
Keith
RS100 GBR 116 (XLR8)


Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 2:36pm
Could be interesting on 2nd thoughts, D-1 and RS100, Icon and X1, RS900 and Aura/others... there would be some interesting contests in there..... not that I'd tip up to watch RS Venture vs Laser Stratos Keel (if the dates they were designed work)!


Posted By: Jon711
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 2:37pm
So the Blaze mark 2 (Also known as the X) was a redesigned boat, not a fudged upgrade, however, it is no faster (Thanks to good management by the CA and the builders), than the older models!!!

So is eligible... Crikey Greame, going to be hard to control this one....

Jon

-------------
Blaze 711


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 3:15pm
Technically the V3000 would qualify even if it was an L3k it's now a different name different builder.

So lets make a list then. Alto, Aura, BlazeX, D1, Icon, Punk, RS100,500,900, Rebel, V3000, X1

That's a dozen boats, there must be more, sad really that the sport can only field a dozen examples of modern thinking yet if it ran an even for 1960's or 70's designs it would be 100's.



-------------
https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/


Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 3:22pm
So about the large prize money fund...want this just encourage match racing in the last few races of the series? And what if a team gets together to sail someone else down the fleet......
 
Prize funds are evil Evil Smile


-------------
Bonnie Lass Contender 1764


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 3:26pm
Theoretically not, since they should be modern boats, not some souped up coffin with a couple of hotshots under pressure to do well wrestling with self-esteem issues, having to be seen about in their Grandads boat.

-------------
https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Theoretically not, since they should be modern boats, not some souped up coffin with a couple of hotshots under pressure to do well wrestling with self-esteem issues, having to be seen about in their Grandads boat.


They'd soon change their ride if there were ten grand up for 1st prize and generous fringe benefits from the sponsor..


-------------
https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 3:32pm
How can the V3000 be considered? The hull design dates back to the 1970's, with insides redesigned in the 1990's and the rig tweaked a little in the 00's. If these are your criteria, then the Graduate also qualifies.

Of course, lots of rotomoulded boats can be there.


-------------
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 3:37pm
V3000, I thought it was a recent product, I didn't see one until the lad who bought my old L3k turned up with one, it was a very different looking affair to my old boat and it had a new name, it wasn't until later I realised what had happened, so technically, new name , new builder, bigger foils, bigger sails...

-------------
https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/


Posted By: dics
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 3:51pm

Good idea but one big flaw. Although these are new designs, surely to qualify they must have some aspect of new innovations within the design. Even Mr Lyons in another thread said the Icon has been built from drawing from previous designs and pooling of experience from the past. Surely this is the same for the RS500, RS100, BlazeX and so on. Which part of these designs are innovative and new to dinghy sailing and thus prgressive? If the answer is nothing then you just have a race of recently designed boats rather than a 21st Century Spaceage race to challenge existing ideas and be progressive (which I think is what you were after to start with).

 
 
Originally posted by G.R.F.

it had a new name, it wasn't until later I realised what had happened, so technically, new name , new builder, bigger foils, bigger sails...
So if I put a 600 sail and Laser foils on my 300 and rebrand as DS 300600  (Dics Special 300600) would I qualify? Just changing componants does not seem to be very inovative or progressive - more pot shot.


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 3:56pm
Ooh I'm loving the idea of a Dics Special, even without the k.LOL

-------------
https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/


Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Technically the V3000 would qualify even if it was an L3k it's now a different name different builder.

So lets make a list then. Alto, Aura, BlazeX, D1, Icon, Punk, RS100,500,900, Rebel, V3000, X1

That's a dozen boats, there must be more, sad really that the sport can only field a dozen examples of modern thinking yet if it ran an even for 1960's or 70's designs it would be 100's.

Laser Vago?


-------------


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 4:42pm
Yes I'd forgotten that, is there something similar from Topper when was the xenon released? What's the handicap on that Vago, smells like windy bandit already..
Alto, Aura, BlazeX, D1, Icon, Laser Vago, Punk, RS100,500,900, Rebel, V3000, X1


-------------
https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/


Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Yes I'd forgotten that, is there something similar from Topper when was the xenon released? What's the handicap on that Vago, smells like windy bandit already..
Alto, Aura, BlazeX, D1, Icon, Laser Vago, Punk, RS100,500,900, Rebel, V3000, X1
I've only every won handicap races in our old Vago...


-------------


Posted By: AndrewLB
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by dics

So if I put a 600 sail and Laser foils on my 300 and rebrand as DS 300600  (Dics Special 300600) would I qualify? Just changing componants does not seem to be very inovative or progressive - more pot shot.

pretty sure Clive Everest tried that a few years ago and it didn't go as well as hoped...

(though it wasn't laser foils, he had it on moth foils. the moment i went past in my non-foiling 300 i knew it wouldn't be a great commercial success)

would it be easier and cheaper to just give a GRF a trophy? 


-------------
RS100 227 (10.2)


Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 7:59pm
Can we clarify which models of Merlin Rocket are eligible please :-)


Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Can we clarify which models of Merlin Rocket are eligible please :-)

none of them, they are all bandits and mostly made of wood, so in GRF's eyes, the devils work and all should be burned at the stake...Tongue


-------------
Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 8:29pm
Thanks Max, Merlins are indeed the spawn of Satan and second only to GP14s in being totally unnecessary to the human condition.

What's worse one came past me on Sunday, flying a spinnaker on an upwind leg this in itself is proof of witchcraft, so both the boat and crew deserve the stake surrounded by faggots with me nearby with a zippo.


-------------
https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/


Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 8:48pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

...deserve the stake surrounded by faggots with me nearby with a zippo.

do you need gravy too with that, or won't that burn with a zippo?


-------------
Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: SoggyBadger
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

a zippo?


Is that a dyslexic Hippo?



-------------
Best wishes from deep in the woods

SB



Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 9:25pm
Don't you just love completing the education of today's youf.Confused

-------------
https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/


Posted By: tickel
Date Posted: 02 Mar 12 at 10:31pm
It's the noise they made when you flicked them open.......how I wish I still smoked.....

-------------
tickel



Print Page | Close Window

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz - http://www.webwizguide.com