ISAF request proposals for Mixed Multihull
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Multihulls
Forum Name: Dinghy multihulls
Forum Discription: For those who prefer two (or more) hulls to one!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8319
Printed Date: 28 Jun 25 at 2:41am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: ISAF request proposals for Mixed Multihull
Posted By: a_dowley
Subject: ISAF request proposals for Mixed Multihull
Date Posted: 23 Sep 11 at 10:37am
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What do we think about the requirements for the Mixed Multihull Evaluation Trials? ISAF appear to want to rule the big cats out of the trials. Does anyone know a boat with a 2 piece mast? Apart from a Sprint 15. http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/MultihullRequestforProposal-%5B11321%5D.pdf - http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/MultihullRequestforProposal-%5B11321%5D.pdf ----- Boat Characteristics:
(b) Performance – per the following approximate descriptions: Racing is expected to be held in winds in the range 5 to 25 knots Higher winds should reward the skill and experience of the sailor Above 25 knots the crew may be in survival mode, but the boat is robust enough to continue without breakage. ---- Cheers Andrew ------------- https://www.sailingchandlery.com/rope-for-sale.html" rel="nofollow - Rope for sale https://www.sailingchandlery.com" rel="nofollow - Sailing Chandlery - Online Chandlery - Number 1 Rated |
Replies:
Posted By: mrzen
Date Posted: 23 Sep 11 at 10:43am
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"Safety – Isolation of Mast from Power Lines – The proposed equipment is to provide a measure of safety from inadvertent strikes of the mast to the overhead power lines." Does this pointless requirement rule out a aluminium mast as well? ------------- Hobie Tiger Hayling Ferry Sailing Club |
Posted By: Stuart O
Date Posted: 23 Sep 11 at 11:01am
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It is always difficult to write a specification that will appeal to all.
There are several things to consider:
primarily this is a boat for MIXED sailing, so has to be sailed bu a male and female...dont think the olympics yet are as progreessive as the Home office as being non gender specific
so if we say mixed why put a weight of 130kgs is this to appeal to the 'lighter' far east. IMHO opinion this has been done so for men to crew and the female to helm.
2 piece mast aka 49er?...dont know many teams that take theirs apart.
20ft container ...done to reduce shipping costs?...most teams travel with 2-3 boats and a rib..so they use a 40ft anyway
8ft 6....well thats illegal in the UK anyway and from my memory of European laws it is in europe too unless being towed by a qualifying vehicle max in 8ft 4 or 2.55m.. ie over 3500kgs which require operators licencing and tachographs
Following consultation the DfT have announced the removal of the 2.3 metre width limit for light trailers towed behind a vehicle with Maximum Authorised Mass less than 3500 kg ie most cars and 4x4's. The width limit for light trailers (i.e. categories O1 and O2) up to 3500 kg MAM is now 2.55 metres irrespective of the towing vehicle, be it car, 4x4 or qualifying commercial vehicle.. This brings the UK into line with the rest of Europe. In the past the limit was 2.3 metres unless the towing vehicle was a qualifying commercial vehicle with MAM over 3500 kg.
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Sep 11 at 11:13am
Don't forget shipping costs are also a factor shifting new boats to non-Olympians. If you want to get a new fleet of boats to somewhere obscure (as opposed to a country that's a node on a main shipping route) its all going to help... Then although the rich western government sponsored teams might be happy to ship two boats, a rib and a lot of empty space in a 40 ft container teams from less affluent places might be trying to get as many boats in a container as possible just like we plebs who have to pay for our own stuff when we go to a worlds... |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 23 Sep 11 at 4:34pm
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2 part mast to fir in a 20ft container seems like a good idea. Doesn't really rule anything out - aren't the AC45 masts 2 part to fit in a 40ft container?! ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: stewart smith
Date Posted: 23 Sep 11 at 7:20pm
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Two part mast Optimist! or Mirror! ------------- Stewart Smith |
Posted By: I luv Wight
Date Posted: 23 Sep 11 at 8:23pm
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Nearly all moth masts are 2-piece now - to fit in an 11 foot box. Not really a problem for weight or repeatability ( and masts at ~ 2kg ) ------------- " rel="nofollow - http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk Andy P foiling Int Moth GBR3467 Freedom 21 Codling |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 24 Sep 11 at 12:09am
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The rule is to make sailing as accessable as possible, by making transportation easy. I am now coaching the Chinese (Lijia Xu in the Radial) and it is amazing what you can fit in a container..
------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: Teamvmg
Date Posted: 25 Sep 11 at 8:11am
| Hobie 16 has a 2-piece mast option |
Posted By: a_dowley
Date Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 10:36am
Might require another hull..... ------------- https://www.sailingchandlery.com/rope-for-sale.html" rel="nofollow - Rope for sale https://www.sailingchandlery.com" rel="nofollow - Sailing Chandlery - Online Chandlery - Number 1 Rated |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 11:45am
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I see the Tornado class association are pretty much raging at the spec. They do have a point on the target crew weight mind. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: SX-ed up
Date Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 12:44pm
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It's not a very efficient use of space but wouldn't Tornado hulls fit in a 20' container if you put them in diagonally? Also the trailerable maximum width doesn't say you can't dismount the hulls. Not sure about the gaff rig though, at least the anorexic crew weights should keep the rig loadings down |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 1:12pm
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Two part doesn't mean gaff...
the comments I've seen from the Tornado class do seem to miss Jim's point about the shipping requirment not just being for travelling competitors, but for shipping new boats efficiently. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Stuart O
Date Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 1:22pm
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as the tornado class does know the boat hulls do fit in a 20ft container, not efficiently but it does fit....apart from the mast....but there again not many masts out there currently do fit.
The combined weight is actually a concern...maybe the crews are also to travel in the container ;)
Maybe we all have experience of what will actually happen after rather than the cloud land that ISAF appear to live in...just look at what they have put about masts being non conductive materials...are they meaning rubber masts?...coz my exp is thats every mast out their conducts electricty
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Posted By: SX-ed up
Date Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 3:38pm
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My comment about a gaff rig was meant to be ironic but perhaps a wooden gaff rig is what ISAF want, after all wood is a poorer conductor than aluminium or carbon fibre The combined weight is a worry, at the 130Kg midpoint we’re looking at the average crew weight on a women’s 470 which is probably a less physically demanding boat and in every class I know competitive weights drop as people get used to handling the boats so if you start with a boat optimised for 130Kg where will it end up after a few years in the Olympic circus? In reality we’re probably looking at something like a production F16 or Spitfire with a two piece carbon mast but looking around the current cat fleets I’m not sure how big the market for that size of boat will be outside of the Olympics, lots of people might want one but would they come up with the money? There again perhaps that’s our problem and the ISAF cat would appeal outside the current ‘gentlemen of a certain age’ seen sailing the majority of cats in Europe and the US |
Posted By: Teamvmg
Date Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 3:53pm
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These aren't the class rules for the olympic cat, just guidelines for their ideal boat All the criteria have to be rated on that stupid colour scheme and the boat that scores best MIGHT be 1st in line for selection. I'm sure that there will be allsorts at the selection event
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Posted By: Stuart O
Date Posted: 27 Sep 11 at 10:29am
| We also have to look at the 8'6 trailer width ...I know it doesnt say the boat has to be towed complete...BUT if you do look at it that way then its more expense of getting an HGV and then an operators licence...to say nothing of the extra tests. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 27 Sep 11 at 10:48am
| Why do you guys think that a width limit of 2.59 metres precludes rolling up with a 2.55m wide boat? This isn't a box rule, its a set of guidelines. IIRC The 49er was nowhere near many of the guidelines for its trials... |
Posted By: Stuart O
Date Posted: 27 Sep 11 at 5:30pm
| Jim the legal limit behind any car or 4x4 in Europe and 2.55m anything over that width has to be towed by an HGV...all Im doing is pointing out that IF a class comes in with a fixed beamed boat of over 2.55 for these trials, and it is chosen, then ISAF can hardly argue that they are trying to make the cost of transporting cheaper |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 27 Sep 11 at 6:00pm
Don't the hulls come apart? ------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: Stuart O
Date Posted: 27 Sep 11 at 8:45pm
I did emphasise the word IF
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Posted By: Stuart O
Date Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 7:04pm
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Im still waiting for a reply to the question that I asked ISAF as to why they stipulated a max width that exceeded the legal towing limits. I do know that they read the forums so perhaps they would be enough to answer the question here or PM me
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Posted By: rb_stretch
Date Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 8:45pm
Actually the 2.55m limit is for trailers and not the load. I think the load is allowed to overhang from the side up to maximum of 2.90m or 305mm either side of the trailer. |
Posted By: Stuart O
Date Posted: 05 Jan 12 at 10:24pm
| yeah RB...but then you have to notify police of movement of load...and could mean flashing orange lights etc |