Rambler capsized during Fastnet
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Keelboat classes
Forum Name: Keelboat news and development
Forum Discription: All the latest developments for yachts
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159
Printed Date: 14 Aug 25 at 11:58am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Rambler capsized during Fastnet
Posted By: Mister Nick
Subject: Rambler capsized during Fastnet
Date Posted: 15 Aug 11 at 9:36pm
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http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=158980 - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=158980
Scary stuff...  I'll be interested to hear what actually happened to them. I hope the woman who was airlifted isn't too badly injured.
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Replies:
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 15 Aug 11 at 10:53pm
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Well the.first boat finished in a record.time and rambler was the next boat to finish if it kept going, been a 100 ft boat it is a big boat to go over.
I am currently on Scillys so will see some boats come in here if they need a refuge stop. Post below shows rambler sailing, just to give an idea of her size. ------------- |
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 15 Aug 11 at 11:04pm
Hope this works, posted via.HTC...
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Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 15 Aug 11 at 11:52pm
HTC won't let me edit my previous posts
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Posted By: LarFinn
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 7:32am
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Well that explains why she capsized - there's a bit missing! Glad all crew rescued safely. ------------- Andi Finn GBR75 |
Posted By: jaydub
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 7:57am
| The canting keel bit? |
Posted By: Contender 541
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 8:00am
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Beat me to that one Andi
Is it just me, or do Canting Keels have a tendancy to just fall off - every year we hear of a small quantity that suffer from this problem. I cannot recall ever hearing of a standard keel suffering a similar failure. I understand the physics and engineering behind the technology (being an Engineer myself with a mechanical bias), but it does strike me as there is a fundemental flaw in the designs.
All crew safe - good. Boat can be replaced if necessary ------------- When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss Crew on 505 8780 |
Posted By: olly_love
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 8:06am
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there have been a few fall off- hooligan to mention one ( loss of life there) canting keels are generally on high performance raceboats. which have reduced factors of safteys therefore when something does fail it is normally a castosophic failure, ------------- TWO FRANK-Hunter Impala |
Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 8:19am
"Drum" lost her keel on a Fastnet, 1985 I believe. That was just off Falmouth, so you could say they did it in the right place..... relatively speaking. |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 8:51am
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Plenty of racing yachts have lost "conventional" keels, not just Drum. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 10:56am
Just around the corner from Falmouth after going between the inner and outer stones of Gull Rock off Nare head. The local view ( fisherman / Portscatho Harbour master of the time ) was that Drum hit the reef between the stones. Although I don't think you will see that on any insurance report. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 11:22am
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What a lovely boat, I love that genoa, what a shame, so what happened? The big lead bit on the bottom fell off then? What are those two lookey likey daggerboard things on the deck in front of the mast then, do they shove them up and down like dinghies? It looks like a very fast planing hull shape. Fabulous looking boat. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 11:48am
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Yes, boats with canting keels require daggerboards, as they sail upwind with the keel foil canted to windward so need an additional foil to provide lift. They use outward angled boards either side to add efficiency- as they still don't get quite flat, the angle allows the foil to be vertical.
the canting mechanism though is a point of weakness- rather than having the keel fin and bulb securely bolted to the structure of the hull, you've got a pivot and hydraulic rams, as well as watertight seals. Complexity means weakness sadly. A couple of Open 60s as well as 1(?) Volvo Ocean Racer have had theirs fall off. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 12:17pm
I saw it happen from the shore. It was about half way between Portscatho and Falmouth about a mile offshore. It was nowhere near any rocks at the time, but that's not to say there couldn't have been any damage from any previous grounding. ------------- Steve B RS300 411 https://www.facebook.com/groups/55859303803" rel="nofollow - RS300 page |
Posted By: asterix
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 12:44pm
| out of interest, roughly how long did it take to turtle? |
Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 12:59pm
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Sounded quick. Really good update here - http://fastnet.rorc.org/news-2011/race-updates-2011/rambler-100-update.html - http://fastnet.rorc.org/news-2011/race-updates-2011/rambler-100-update.html ------------- |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 2:15pm
3 degrees of separation, isn't that what they call it. A friend of mine's brother I used to sail N12's with was crewing Drum at the time as well. As for Rambler, a very nice boat ( not so nice now ). I'm glad the 5 that were separated from the boat for 3 hours were all picked up. That must have been a pretty scary experience. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: Contender 541
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 3:38pm
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Jack - 6 degrees
It does surprise me - on the odd occasion I get separated on a pond - just how quickly the boat goes beyond your ability to get back to it. They do seem to drift so much faster than you can swim ------------- When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss Crew on 505 8780 |
Posted By: Hughph
Date Posted: 16 Aug 11 at 11:42pm
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With all fairness to canting keels it was not any of the canting mechanism that failed, it was in fact the keel itself before the bulb. Rambler was using a fabricated keel strut going down to the bulb which was hollow. Most yachts such as the VO70's have to use a solid milled strut for safety reasons but I got the impression that Rambler wanted to save wieght. A canting keel is probably under higher loads when sailing which is probably why it snapped. (Note all the probablys, just guessed that bit). Info found from SA Pics attached to to show the hollow keel strut where it snapped and a diagram   ------------- |
Posted By: Contender 541
Date Posted: 18 Aug 11 at 1:39pm
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Does anyone know if she has been salvaged, or is she a total loss? ------------- When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss Crew on 505 8780 |
Posted By: Femto
Date Posted: 18 Aug 11 at 2:22pm
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Now the right way up and being salvaged - minus rig. Sad sight......  ------------- RS600 717, RS400 870 Netley SC Kerr 11.3 (Pier View YC) |
Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 18 Aug 11 at 3:33pm
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Not nice to see. Wouldn't like to be a claims handler! ------------- |
Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 19 Aug 11 at 8:00am
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Lets hope the mast is lying horizontally on the bottom and not stuck in the mud standing up. ------------- Bonnie Lass Contender 1764 |
Posted By: s.a.l.t.y
Date Posted: 19 Aug 11 at 10:52am
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I read somewhere the other day that the rig was still attached so they had planned to separate it and recover it at the same time as the hull. ------------- |
Posted By: I luv Wight
Date Posted: 19 Aug 11 at 8:31pm
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A very Cherub-style snout on Rambler ( except of course the snout itself is longer than a whole Cherub ) ------------- " rel="nofollow - http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk Andy P foiling Int Moth GBR3467 Freedom 21 Codling |
Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 01 Sep 11 at 11:15am
I quite agree! BTW Rambler is now ashore at Endeavour Quays Gosport.
 ------------- RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed" Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 01 Sep 11 at 11:42am
| Is that ugly yellow thing really a cherub? |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 01 Sep 11 at 12:02pm
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yes. ugly in the same way a Stealth bomber is ugly, ugly purposeful. Except with out the stealth bit. :) ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: bferry
Date Posted: 01 Sep 11 at 9:10pm
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Looks sexy to me. The yellow looks better on it than on a Pico.....I guess beauty lies in the eye of the beholder!
------------- Bernard Vareo 249 Miracle 2818 Malta |
Posted By: bferry
Date Posted: 04 Nov 11 at 9:51am
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http://ptsail.org/2011/08/16/surviving-to-tell-the-story-of-rambler-100/ - http://ptsail.org/2011/08/16/surviving-to-tell-the-story-of-rambler-100/
Interesting article with a first hand report from the crew. Thought it would be worth sharing. ------------- Bernard Vareo 249 Miracle 2818 Malta |
Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 04 Nov 11 at 5:54pm
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Blimey! What an eye opener. Really scary stuff.
I'll be ensuring to do my lifejacket up properly next time I'm out and maybe not so keen to sling it off as soon as I'm below!
Good points about where to place the rafts. Thinking about all of the yachts I've raced, they never seem to be in a great place if you were to turtle ------------- |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 04 Nov 11 at 10:13pm
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Open 60s (and some other single/short handers?) have the raft mounted in (not on) the stern, next to an escape hatch. The companion way hatches seal tight. They've designed all this around the possibility of having the keel come off in the mid Southern Ocean when on your own- but surely this should be standard for all modern "proper" ocean racers? The VO70s have a hatch, and the raft postioned such that it can probably be easily deployed by leaning out that hatch.
------------- -_ Al |