renovating varnished sidedecks - moved from dinghy
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Repair & maintenance
Forum Discription: Questions & tips on the subject
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7805
Printed Date: 14 May 25 at 4:23pm
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Topic: renovating varnished sidedecks - moved from dinghy
Posted By: sawman
Subject: renovating varnished sidedecks - moved from dinghy
Date Posted: 04 May 11 at 8:40am
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I have just moved this from the dinghy techniques sub forum, as it seemed more appropriate! Sorry!
Just picked up a ebay special to teach the kids how to sail. I havent picked it up yet but I know the topsides need a bit of work. It is many years since I have had a wooden boat and so a few tips on the renovation would be helpful:
the existing varnish has lifted from the decks in places, so I am planning on removing all the loose stuff and sanding back .
I have used international 2 pack a fair bit 15 -20 years ago. I will probably go for one pack, but would be happy to take a recommendation of current thinking. Also are there any good primers about, or is it best just to thin regular varnish.
The painted sections of the hull seem generally ok judging by the pics, but if they are in need I will probably just fill any defects and paint up for the summer, with a more in depth repaint next winter.
Hoping to be on the water in a week or so
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Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 04 May 11 at 9:01am
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I think one pot is always safer for older wooden boats, especially if the wood isn't in 100% condition and definitely if you're not sure what's been used in the past. Reserve two pot for new decks or when you are putting a new coat on existing two pot in good condition. One pot seems more flexible and better on tired decks. If you go to the CVRDA forum you'll find out about other options... there's some sort of pond sealer (honestly!) that people rave about for elderly wood.
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Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 04 May 11 at 9:33am
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Thanks for the link Jim, pretty helpful
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Posted By: rogerd
Date Posted: 05 May 11 at 9:10pm
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The pond sealer Jim refers to is called G4 and was originally designed for the boat industry and was then found to be an excellent pond sealer. Its also much cheaper if you buy it at garden centres. The main advantage is that you can get several coats on very quickly. Used as a primer it has given some very good results but ideally it needs a coat or two of varnish to provide uv protection.
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Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 05 May 11 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by rogerd
The pond sealer Jim refers to is called G4 and was originally designed for the boat industry and was then found to be an excellent pond sealer. Its also much cheaper if you buy it at garden centres. The main advantage is that you can get several coats on very quickly. Used as a primer it has given some very good results but ideally it needs a coat or two of varnish to provide uv protection.
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I was reading about this yesterday, had a quick look in B&Q last night (was there on a gardening mission!) but didnt see any. I suspect I might be better off at a garden centre with a decent pond section.
Have you used G4 yourself?
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Posted By: rogerd
Date Posted: 06 May 11 at 7:53am
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Yes garden centres are the place. Make sure you get the clear version black doesnt look to good. I have used it as a primer on clean bare wood and it has worked very well. I used it on decks but it is difficult in ribbed boats where there are lots of corners. Make sure you dont let it pool and spread it very thin. Any pools bubble and go white which is annoying. I used it on the decks of my classic Hornet in 2008 I think and it still looks good. You do need to uv protect it with varnish although I know of one merlin (36) that did several seasons without and still looked good.
The big advantage is you can get three coats on in a day.
lots talked about in on cvrda.org. some for and some no so but you get that any where. Would I use it again? yes in the right circumstances.
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Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 06 May 11 at 1:11pm
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Thanks guys ,
has anyone got any feelings with regards the brush versus pads/roller debate?
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 06 May 11 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by sawman
has anyone got any feelings with regards the brush versus pads/roller debate? |
Depends on how good you are at painting... If, like me, you're really bad at it then using a roller to put on a smooth even coat and then a brush to smooth over the roller texture will give a much more even result with far fewer runs than using just a paint brush on large areas.
If you are a competent painter I doubt it matters.
If its something like a clinker boat or even more a boat with a ribbed interior then the roller will be more trouble than its worth.
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Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 06 May 11 at 1:52pm
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Cheers jim. I might have a bash with a roller just for the sport of it, although I have always had a reasonable result with a brush before now.
The boat is a miracle so mainly flattish surfaces. Collecting it tonight so will be hard at it tomorrow with the sander etc (I'm just hoping the wood is in reasonable condition)
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 06 May 11 at 2:00pm
If you use a Harris varnish miniroller, then the bubble problem foam rollers give goes away.
G4 destroys rollers, however - something to do with the nasty chemicals. BTW, G4 won't go on top of existing varnish.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posted By: Graham T
Date Posted: 06 May 11 at 5:35pm
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Beware of sanders and plywood.... It is very easy to go through a veneer.
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Osprey 55 "Tebutinnang"
Osprey 1245 "Two Bob Bit"
Miracle 1358 "Thumper"
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Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 07 May 11 at 6:52am
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So, I got the boat home last night and it doesnt look as bad as the pictures had suggested. There are patches where the varnish has started to lift and other areas where it seems pretty solid. The wood seems to be pretty fair for a 30 year old boat. Unfortunately the transom is painted rather than varnished, which I dont really like, I am tempted to strip , this but am a bit concerned that it might uncover some unpleasantness. Perhaps I will leave that for now, and just get with getting it on the water.
I'll see how the day goes, but I am considering removing the old flaky bits, then building up these areas to match the good bits of deck, before overcoating the whole lot, with a view to doing a whole repaint next winter. Do think I would really be better biting the bullet stripping off the whole lot from the decks now and be done with it?
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Posted By: rogerd
Date Posted: 07 May 11 at 11:10am
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I would make good for now and go sailing. If you have somewhere dry to work on her in the winter then that is the best time to do it. I am always tempted to rush things when the weather is good for sailing.
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Posted By: Barty
Date Posted: 09 May 11 at 12:39pm
If you use a roller and get bubbles, waggle a heat gun over them (100 to 200mm away from the varnish) and they pop. Obviously you need to be careful with heat guns and boats but it works and is quick. Also works with epoxy.
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http://www.highlandtopper.com - For Topper boats & spares in Scotland-highlandtopper.com
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Posted By: rogerd
Date Posted: 11 May 11 at 5:36pm
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useful tip do you mind if I post it on cvrda?
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Posted By: Barty
Date Posted: 12 May 11 at 12:28pm
Not at all
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http://www.highlandtopper.com - For Topper boats & spares in Scotland-highlandtopper.com
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Posted By: rogerd
Date Posted: 12 May 11 at 4:37pm
Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 24 Mar 12 at 12:36pm
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Well just to resurrect my old thread, I ended up taking the decks back to wood pretty much all over and varnished up with 2 coats of thinned international original, and then a couple of coats un thinned. It seemed to come up pretty well, I also ended up spending more than the boat cost on some new fittings (dont tell the wife!) Anyway, the kids really enjoyed the summer - which was the point. I planned to put the boat in the garage before christmas but ended up moving house in feb so it only came home last week. Unfortunately, parts of the Topsides have deteriorated again, particularly the foredeck which was the worst area previously. The varnish had started to lift a bit again, so I want to fix it better this time. I wonder if it would be better to use nitromors to clean off the old damaged varnish - rather than sanding as I did perviously and possibly using a clear primer instead of thinned varnish.
grateful for tips s
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Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 5:56pm
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S,
Nothing much has changed your in much the same postion really. The problem you have that any primer will now darken it so unless you do the same thoughout its gonna look a bit funny.
I dont understand why its lift to so quick, my varnish was in good nick this year with such a wet summer, painted decks suffered a bit from the damp collecting under the cover though.
Kev
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GP14 Fleet Captain
Liverpool Sailing Club
http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 6:23pm
I've been having trouble with lifting varnish on the Minisail this winter. The boat has one of those black plastic covers, and I'm sure it is to blame, so I've just spent more than the boat is worth on a breathable cover. It arrived today, so I'm going to go and see if it fits tomorrow.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 26 Mar 12 at 9:21pm
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Rupert,
I suspect Ive exactly the same problem. The modern GP has painted decks and with the underside just primer or bare so any damp has come up through the decks and trapped under the cover just sits under the paint and delaminates my decks.
Ive made sure the underside is paint and swapped to an old fabric cover.
Kev
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GP14 Fleet Captain
Liverpool Sailing Club
http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC
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