Port/Starboard hailing
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7740
Printed Date: 27 Jun 25 at 10:43pm
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Topic: Port/Starboard hailing
Posted By: Jaws
Subject: Port/Starboard hailing
Date Posted: 10 Apr 11 at 10:42am
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Is it an obligation to to call "Starboard"? I've looked through the RRS, and there's no indication that there's an obligation on the part of the ROW boat other than to allow room to avoid. ------------- RS600 794 |
Replies:
Posted By: timeintheboat
Date Posted: 10 Apr 11 at 10:51am
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That is my understanding as well - although the fact that did hail Starboard would stand you in good stead at a protest meeting.
------------- Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 10:05am
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Nope, no obligation at all.
------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 11:25am
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Toms right, the only two neccessary hails are 'Protest' and Room to tack for and obsruction.
I don't mind a Hail however as, i prefer people to let me know their there even if it looks obvious i can see them. ------------- |
Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 11:50am
No. However the sound of graunching fiberglass can ruin your whole day. If I can see the helm of the other boat is watching me I won't hail. If they are not, I will. |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 12:43pm
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of course, it's a really stupid idea to shout starboard if you're on port. Nearly lamped my helm for that one, even though it was just him being thick, not malicious. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 3:18pm
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if you do call starboard, do you then have to hold your course? or could you shout starboard, make another boat tack away and the tack yourself?
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Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 3:34pm
I don't think calling Starboard means anything or forces you to not tack, it has as much effect to the rules as shouting 'Cheese'. ------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 3:48pm
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but you have made the other boat change course when he did not have to, want to or need to. is that just hard luck on the other boat? ------------- |
Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 4:07pm
Yes. Happens all the time. Not necessarily intentionally either. If P does a well-executed lee-bow tack S will need to tack off. Of course S might have done better to wave P across if P is in a position to do that. |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 6:51pm
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There is no obligation in the rules - despite what older club members may claim as their reason for not giving way if you didn't hail "Starboard".
Sailing is an "equal opportunities" sport so the sailors can be deaf and/or dumb.
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Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 7:20pm
The give-way boat's helm looking you in the eye is no guarantee that they a) realise that you are ROW, or b) will give way. I nearly has my head removed by a running boat's jibstick the other day while ROW boat... I didn't hail 'cos I KNEW he'd seen me.  I didn't bank on his ignorance / idiocy / pig-headed-ness.
------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 12 Apr 11 at 5:15pm
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1) No hail required by the rules, but a hail does make it clearer to a protest committee that you're aware of your rule 14 (no contact) obligations. 2) You must comply with 16.1 - giving room when altering course. (and with 16.2)
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Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 12 Apr 11 at 5:20pm
Also not sportsmanlike behaviour - it's a breach of rule 2 (fair sailing). See ISAF case 47.
The penalty for breaking 2 is a DNE - disqualification not excludable - i.e. it can't be discarded and must be counted in a series/regatta score.
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Posted By: Foiling_Toff
Date Posted: 12 Apr 11 at 10:49pm
| This thread has made me think about an incident I had in a race once. Started right in the middle of the line on starboard, and shouted loudly and enthusiastically at several boats on port, which most of the fleet heard. I then tacked on to port, ducked one boat, but missed one right behind it which ended with me doing turns. I felt so silly at the time, having shouted so loudly at everyone else, then failing to keep clear of another boat seconds later. Of course I don't blame the other boat in the slightest, but had they called, I would have easily avoided them, which would have befitted both our races, let alone help to avoid a collision. |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 13 Apr 11 at 8:40am
Even if it's just because he can't tell his left from his right on occasion? genuine mistake, there was no collison and they didn't take avoiding action. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 13 Apr 11 at 10:27am
| I think there's a strong argument to suggest that if you can't tell port from starboard you shouldn't be calling for right of way... |
Posted By: Foiling_Toff
Date Posted: 13 Apr 11 at 11:06am
| or racing at all really. Sounds harsh, and as a back-of-the-fleet sailor I'm keen to get as many people involved as possible, but there is a certain level of competence required. |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 13 Apr 11 at 11:30am
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I had a Port Starboard incident last night, racing boards, I was on the layline on an evaporating lift, the other fella was coming in on Port, I warned him with a 'you're not going to make it Barry' he ignored it as they all seem to these days (I'd sworn not to race with them until they cleaned up their rule adherence) we collided his momentum carried him through I got forced round had to tack then tack back he wouldn't do his turns and I eventually stropped off, before I left, I caught him and a couple of others up by missing a buoy, they started whining.. I said "Well why? Is it in the rules you have to race around all the buoys? It's much easier to miss one if your not doing well, like ignoring Port Starboard collisions.. It's why I like sailing in boats, they do at least obey more of the rules, not all of them but more and without rules why bother...
------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 13 Apr 11 at 12:12pm
I think it depends on the event... I anticipate raw beginners in club races getting confused, and I cut them lot of slack... The poor 11 year old in his Topper in his first couple of races is feeling stressed enough seeing the very long and very sharp bow of the Canoe hurtling towards him, and I'll probably duck him if he's on port rather than start yelling and get the poor lad even more confused and probably stuck in irons right in front of me trying to crash tack... |
Posted By: ifoxwell
Date Posted: 13 Apr 11 at 12:18pm
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Absolutely. One of the great aspects of a self policing sport like ours is that we can use some common sense when looking at rules and apply the letter of the law as and when its appropriate. Ian ------------- RS300 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 13 Apr 11 at 12:39pm
| GRF, I'm afraid you're just going to have to start protesting... If they spend a few evenings in the protest room instead of the bar then maybe they'll shape up. Surely you of all people aren't that bothered about winding a few people up! |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 13 Apr 11 at 12:39pm
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So, if you are approaching a port boat when on starboard, and if you carry on your current course, he will clear you, are you allowed to pinch in order to force him to tack off (assuming you are giving time and oppotunity?) or to take a lift which does the same? And if so, are you still allowed to if you have hailed?
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 13 Apr 11 at 3:35pm
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You have to comply with 16.1 (and 16.2 - though it doesn't apply to your situation) 16 CHANGING COURSE 16.1 When a right-of-way boat changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear. 16.2 In addition, when after the starting signal a port-tack boat is keeping clear by sailing to pass astern of a starboard-tack boat, the starboard-tack boat shall not change course if as a result the port-tack boat would immediately need to change course to continue keeping clear. So basically, if your alteration of course (luff to pinch, or luff to take the lift) is early enough that you've given him room to keep clear (Definition of room: Room The space a boat needs in the existing conditions while manoeuvring promptly in a seamanlike way), then you've complied with 16, and he has to keep clear. However, if it's a late luff, and there's nothing he can do to keep clear - you've basically luffed into him and hit him, and you've broken 16.1. |
Posted By: Wobble
Date Posted: 12 May 11 at 3:05pm
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Even if the rules don't require it, I'm all in favour of yelling starboard, with no offence offered or taken. I find quite unnerving the seemingly novel practice of sneaking up phantom-like without uttering a sound. It's almost as if there's some sort of too-cool-to-hail thing going on. |
Posted By: Foiling_Toff
Date Posted: 12 May 11 at 3:09pm
Ooo good, some phantom bashing |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 12 May 11 at 4:35pm
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We should not rely on the other chap hailing.
If you hailed every port boat at Cowes week, you'd lose your voice by Tuesday.
Also it becomes just part of the noise, you hear someone call starboard and put it down to the boat you are watching and are clearly going to miss, meanwhile there is another unseen boat behind the main.
There is little point in hailing a competent opponent who is well aware that you are there, if you are already sure he will avoid you.
Equally a hail is well received if I'm distracted by other things or whatever.
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Posted By: Wobble
Date Posted: 12 May 11 at 4:46pm
Agreed. I wouldn't hail anyone who is obviously aware that I am there, unless it becomes clear that s/he is too dim or bloody-minded to comply with the rule.
Which is why hailing is more than useless bawling. How many of us can honestly say that we have never been surprised by a boat on starboard? |
Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 12 May 11 at 5:32pm
+1
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