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making trapezing easier

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7583
Printed Date: 26 Jun 25 at 1:18pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: making trapezing easier
Posted By: rickstar 1027
Subject: making trapezing easier
Date Posted: 20 Feb 11 at 9:22pm

hi i have just moved from a laser 1 to a laser vortex however keeping the laser until the money runs out but straight to the poin ive seen all of these videos on youtube about ready rings and one about the wand system i need somethink that is easier then the traditional method any adviseConfused



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Mirror 58430
Laser
Vortex 1027



Replies:
Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 20 Feb 11 at 9:55pm
Riskstar,
What part of trapezing are you stugling with? Or need to make easier?  then mayber we can recommend some techniques.


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Posted By: rickstar 1027
Date Posted: 20 Feb 11 at 10:45pm
basically i struggle with wire to wire fast enough/and un hooking with one hand wilst swinging in ?

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Mirror 58430
Laser
Vortex 1027


Posted By: tim grasse
Date Posted: 20 Feb 11 at 11:23pm
long post here

I’m probably not the best person to give advice but when I’m sailing i find it easiest to grab the handle and lift yourself up to unhook and the elastic attached to the ring should make you unhook.

when I tack the most important skill I have learnt while trapezing is the ability to sail well with the mainsheet and tiller in the same hand, if you can sail well like that you can grab the ring with your free hand, hook in and then use that hand to keep tension on the ring so it doesn’t come unhooked then its just a matter of swinging out when ready.

hope this helps.

another thing i was told by a very good sailor is that if you can sail the boat well while standing on the gunnels unhooked easily you will find that the time spent hooking in and unhooking between tacks much easier and over time this will become fluent and will become 1 motion from unhooking to trapezing on the next tack

hope this helps

Tim


Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 21 Feb 11 at 6:50am
How about giving it some more practice if you've only just switched? The Vortex is a relatively forgiving platform for mistakes I thought? It's not the easiest thing in the world, yes- but that surely is half the fun.

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-_
Al


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 21 Feb 11 at 7:54am
and sew a hook onto your harness to hold the loose end of the sheet.  That's what the contender guys do.  But Al is right, keep practising the traditional method - some people can actually tack fast that way if the're nimble enough.

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the same, but different...



Posted By: rickstar 1027
Date Posted: 21 Feb 11 at 8:03am
lol i know im being really nevous about wednesday up the club its the windyist ive been out in it but a hook for the main sheet
wont the mainsheet just slide thourgh?


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Mirror 58430
Laser
Vortex 1027


Posted By: simonrh
Date Posted: 21 Feb 11 at 8:58am
I find on my vortex that it was all about practice! I had never trapeze helmed before I bought mine.
I don't find I make it go about fast enough to do true wire to wire tacks like I have seen some other guys classes doing anyway so i get a little thinking space.
Make sure you stay on your feet if possible to keep mobile.
Received wisdom seems to be just chucking the mainsheet away for the first half of the tack, collect it as you go past the turret (dumping a bit of tension as you go though the eye of the wind if it is blowing to save ending up in irons). This gives you one hand for steering and one for lifting yourself up and aiming for the rear of the boat. As long as the trapeze bungy is fresh it shoul djust ping away.

I remember watching a couple of vidoes of Alan Grant on youtube sailing his "vortex x" to get a few pointers.


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Vortex Asymmetric 1064
Dart 18 7118
Smartkat stunt sailor extraordinaire


Posted By: rickstar 1027
Date Posted: 21 Feb 11 at 9:24am

yh but about that hook thing why doesnt the rope just fly out



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Mirror 58430
Laser
Vortex 1027


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 21 Feb 11 at 9:28am
you ease then cleat the sheet as you go into the tack, throw the end into the boat then go under the boom and out on the other side, tiller in one hand trap in the other.  You have the tail of the sheet tied off in the boat, so once you're hooked on you take the sheet from the hook and sheet in.

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the same, but different...



Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 21 Feb 11 at 9:30am
like this:

[TUBE]CVfJbX4Mmfs[/TUBE]

but you have to practise loads.





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the same, but different...



Posted By: simonrh
Date Posted: 21 Feb 11 at 9:33am
I think the MPS and contender guys etc use the hook as a 3rd hand just to keep the loose end of the mainsheet to hand (rather than going out on the wire and then realising you have forgotten it). Keep meaning to try it. Would be useful downwind with the kite up because I never seem to have enough hands if i want to adjust the main once flying the kite.

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Vortex Asymmetric 1064
Dart 18 7118
Smartkat stunt sailor extraordinaire


Posted By: rickstar 1027
Date Posted: 21 Feb 11 at 9:46am
ok then thanks 'winging it' that has solved my problems
im so glad i started off in a non assy :P?


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Mirror 58430
Laser
Vortex 1027


Posted By: rickstar 1027
Date Posted: 21 Feb 11 at 9:52am
ill try that on wednesday

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Mirror 58430
Laser
Vortex 1027


Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 21 Feb 11 at 10:12am
Very few people in teh 600 actually wire to wire fully....most come off teh wire in teh tack and then hook on from sitting on the rack before going out.  To be honest though wire to wire is difficult if you've taken off your mainsheet jammer :)

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Musto Skiff and Solo sailor


Posted By: rickstar 1027
Date Posted: 21 Feb 11 at 7:49pm
lol i could imagine but the reason i have borught the vortex is to kind of use as a stepping stone in to the 600

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Mirror 58430
Laser
Vortex 1027


Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 21 Feb 11 at 9:31pm
There really shouldnt be a need to hook your mainsheet to your harness or use the stick things! especially on the Vortex. As Neptune says the 600s dont do anything flash and never have done and you have a much more stable platform on the Vortex.
If you are out on the wire upwind and want to tack uncleat the main. As you start the tack put the uncleated mainsheet into your tillerhand, and pull up on the trapeze handle and step in. As the hook comes off, grab the mainsheet in your forward hand, letting between 6inches to a foot run through your hand as you turn facing forwards. As you turn the mainsheet hand becomes your back hand which now needs to grab the tiller extension, then your forward hand can now be used to grab the trapeze hook. If your nervous, sit down ease a bit more sheet and get hooked on before pushing out and progressively sheet on to support your now trapezing lump!

A lot of newbies to singlehanded trapeze classes tend to over do it and try to wire to wire tack on their feet straight away but often the wobble about and pi** it in. Its better to take your time getting the hang of it and sit on the side to hook/unhook. The only issue then is ensuring you keep the boat going quick enough to get through the tack, so ease some sheet and bear away a touch before tacking. Once the boat tacks get it going on the next tack before swinging out rather than rushing across the boat only to get stuck in irons.


Posted By: rickstar 1027
Date Posted: 22 Feb 11 at 8:46am
WOW THANKS THAT HAS FINNALLY ANSWERED MY QUESTION properly

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Mirror 58430
Laser
Vortex 1027


Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 22 Feb 11 at 8:53am
Rickster that wasn't your question was it? i thought you wanted to make it easier.  Hence asking what part you were struggling with.

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Posted By: simonrh
Date Posted: 22 Feb 11 at 9:00am
Rickstar, if you haven't already done so, sign up to www.sailvortex.org and there are lots of PDF guides to using the boat.

One of which is the Quick Guide that gives you the low down on tacking in various conditions.


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Vortex Asymmetric 1064
Dart 18 7118
Smartkat stunt sailor extraordinaire


Posted By: rickstar 1027
Date Posted: 22 Feb 11 at 2:51pm
Ruscoe i know what you mean however he has helped me with what ive got and how to do it easily

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Mirror 58430
Laser
Vortex 1027


Posted By: rickstar 1027
Date Posted: 22 Feb 11 at 2:54pm
Simronh  i have been having a look on that website for a while however when i click register it just pops a screen up saying you need to login to veiw this page which is stupid because im trying to register so i can veiw more pagesCry

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Mirror 58430
Laser
Vortex 1027


Posted By: simonrh
Date Posted: 22 Feb 11 at 3:23pm
Website seems to be down at the moment (at least from here).

There was a special way of registering on the site if I remember as the obvious button didn't work properly. Once i can get ont here again I can send you the link?


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Vortex Asymmetric 1064
Dart 18 7118
Smartkat stunt sailor extraordinaire


Posted By: simonrh
Date Posted: 22 Feb 11 at 3:51pm
Something does seem to be up, I believe you used to follow the link on the "Class associtation" page to get registered. But this now goes to the "you aren't registered page".

If you go to the "contact us" page I think it is Phil W who does the website registrations (or can sort you out if not?)


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Vortex Asymmetric 1064
Dart 18 7118
Smartkat stunt sailor extraordinaire


Posted By: rickstar 1027
Date Posted: 22 Feb 11 at 4:21pm
ok thanks i ve emailed him now

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Mirror 58430
Laser
Vortex 1027


Posted By: sten
Date Posted: 22 Feb 11 at 5:05pm
to  make tacking easier, break the tack down into smaller parts like steering, where you step, what you do to swap hands with the main sheet, hooking on and off the wire. then practice each one on its own and slowly to start with so you get it right before putting it all together.
 
 ie try just hooking on and off in a straight line without coming in.
it will be important to set your handle height so your arm is straight so you can just put your shoulder down and hips up to unhook
also tense the palm of the hand to take your weight instead of gripping with fingers or you little finger gets crushed. and you will think your not strong enough to hold on.
make sure the elastic isn't all twisted or making the ring hang at a odd angle
 
steering a long smooth curve will give you lots of time to cross the boat and get sorted also making it easier to keep your balance.
 
foot work is important not to spend to long at the back draging the transom. also you can put a hand down to give more stablity and help with getting up after ducking the boom.
 
 
here is a clip of a mustoskiff tacking which may help even though its a different class
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1962182114833715460 - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1962182114833715460 #
 
 


Posted By: rickstar 1027
Date Posted: 22 Feb 11 at 5:39pm
its funny really i am at a very high standard in the laser and i have moved on to this and im back to basics :P

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Mirror 58430
Laser
Vortex 1027


Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 22 Feb 11 at 6:51pm
Sten  - good to see you're still around on here.
As usual Sten has it right. I train Vortex sailors to break it down - get one part right before moving on.
One correction to earlier advice - do not sheet out until level with the turret. Also minimise movements on the boat - IE Do not uncleat (Slows Boat),  come in(Slows Boat)  sit - or probably 'thud' down,(Slows Boat)  sheet out some more(Slows Boat) shuffle across boat on knees in 3 or 4 movements (Slows Boat) (Slows Boat) (Slows Boat) (Slows Boat) sit down again,(Slows Boat)  hook on (Slows Boat) shuffle out in two or three movements (You get the message).
 
In a Vortex speed into the tack, a smooth arc and minimum disturbance to momentum results in a completed tack at speed rather than sitting in irons. The class association pdf are well worth a look as they describe all the techniques needed to get a Vortex moving fast and keep it going, as well as rigging tips and settings. The site has been the victim of dozens of phishing / email spam attacks with an amazing amount of interest in registering from Nigeria, Russia and other exotic climes, so its had to be suspended while it's sorted out.
Hope the problems with registering are solved soon.


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Keith
29er 661 (with my daughters / nephew)
49er 688 (with Phil P)
RS200 968
Vortex (occasionally)
Laser 2049XX


Posted By: Garry
Date Posted: 22 Feb 11 at 6:59pm
Not a vortex sailor but I do have a Contender.

some tips

might help to tie the tail of the sheet in the boat, that way you don't loose it all overboard.

I don't use a hook for the mainsheet. 

Ease enough mainsheet as you come in so as you go out the other side you can make progress without being overpowered, what seems slow is often very fast!  Don't rush! Since balance is the key heeling too soon because you have too much power is really slow.

To come in I use the handle, to go out I clip on first, as I push with my legs I sheet in...




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Garry

Lark 2252, Contender 298

www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk


Posted By: simonrh
Date Posted: 22 Feb 11 at 8:37pm
If you do one thing to make your vortex sailing better - listen to Keith (Hector).

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Vortex Asymmetric 1064
Dart 18 7118
Smartkat stunt sailor extraordinaire


Posted By: rickstar 1027
Date Posted: 22 Feb 11 at 8:59pm
thanks all ill try all of this on wednesday and i expect ill be getting wet


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Mirror 58430
Laser
Vortex 1027


Posted By: rickstar 1027
Date Posted: 25 Feb 11 at 2:24pm
had a goo at all of these on wednesday and i found thatthe easiest way to tack was to cleat the main then as you cross the boat pick up that and the tiller in the back hand and hook on with the other

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Mirror 58430
Laser
Vortex 1027



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