Racing Rules: Taking AverageLap Mountain By Strategy

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Taking AverageLap Mountain By Strategy

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7507
Printed Date: 27 Jun 25 at 10:40pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: Taking AverageLap Mountain By Strategy

Posted By: Strangler
Subject: Taking AverageLap Mountain By Strategy
Date Posted: 26 Jan 11 at 12:40pm

Big anomalies can occur with the average lap system when the finish line is invoked and a change in wind strength occurs. Some [leading] boats will have gone through the line and have [lets say] to content with a dying wind. This happened to me in two of three races of a club weekend handicap event I was leading Laser in both races but finished 4^th Laser in both!

My rules question is – say you have not long gone through the gate/finish line when the finish is invoked. Can you go back and recross the line? [No race length specified so cannot do a tactical slow down.] You would no doubt have to explain to the scorer what you did.

Replies:

Posted By: chrisg
Date Posted: 26 Jan 11 at 1:04pm

I'd be interested to hear peoples views on this too.

Many people at my club seem to think average lap racing is the way forward. They say its the "fairest" type of racing as everyone sails in the same conditions for the same amount of time. While I acknoweldge that that is true, instances such as the one you mention above, infers to me that it isnt quite as fair as would seem at first glance....

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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 26 Jan 11 at 1:06pm

The main thing is to have plenty of short laps: you really want the fast boats to be doing at least five.

The second thing is for the RC to be vey careful about where they divide the fleet: this is difficult, but I can usually manage to avoid splitting the leaders in the bigger classes.

Whether your sailing back idea is permitted would depend on SIs... Our SIs state "Once the first boat is finished then all boats will finish as they next complete a lap." which prohibits such activity.

I do remember how long it took to explain to someone how it could be that while they were first in the extracted Laser Class results they were 2nd Laser in the handicap results...

I'm amazed it happened twice in a weekend unless they were setting long courses and very few laps.

Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 26 Jan 11 at 1:09pm

The other way to do it is have a rule that says you can only shorten on the leading boat in any given fleet.

This gets around issues where a 'faster' boats gets through and a 'slower' boat of the same class does not and then finishes ahead on corrected time.

If you find yourself in this situation I would request redress as, in my opion, the race has not be conducted fairly and you have been unfairly disavantaged by actions outside of your control.

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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74

Posted By: Strangler
Date Posted: 26 Jan 11 at 1:35pm

I did 4 or 5 laps of a fairly big course.

The RC did not record lap times [just number of laps and finish time] so no recourse really.

Jim-

'Once the first boat is finished then all boats...'

I think there is a slight ambiguity. Being pedantic what does 'first boat' mean. Could be interpreted as leading boat.

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Posted By: marke
Date Posted: 26 Jan 11 at 2:42pm

Hi

This discussion is very relevant as I'm in the middle of trying to customise our race management software to be a little more flexible with its average lap timing scheme.

At the moment the system works as JimC described in his SIs - when the leading boat completes the race it then automatically finishes everyone on their next lap. This works well some of the time but not all of the time. It doesn't work in the situation where the leading Toppers (slowest boat) have just started another lap and the leading boat (e.g RS800 or B14) finishes the race a few seconds after them. The leading Toppers are then faced with perhaps another 20 minutes sailing to complete another lap and this prevents the OOD getting on with the next race.

For a variety of reasons it is not desirable to have lots of short laps (congestion in an estuary) - we typically have races of around an hour for the leaders doing 3 or 4 laps.

We really only have a problem with boats slower than an laser as we don't have many boats with PYs between them and the Toppers/Mirrors.

My current thoughts are to provide the OOD with a mechanism to be able to finish the slowest boats on whatever lap he sees fit (i.e. force a finish on current lap), and then just deal with the other boats as for a normal average lap race (i.e. leading boat finish triggers the finish on next lap algorithm).

There is a problem of signalling a shortened course and to get round this we propose to keep the shorten course signal for the leader and use the safety boat to inform the leading Toppers if they are finished early.

Anyone see unforeseen problems with this 'modified' average lap approach, or have a better solution.

thanks

Mark

P.S we do record every lap time on the system - this allows us the option of 'abandon race at previous lap' if the wind dies which can happen fairly regularly on Wednesday evenings. OOD signals abandon and the race results are calculated automatically based on the laps completed.

Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 26 Jan 11 at 2:49pm

At Hunts we specify the Lead Boat so if it is an all in Handicap race they can only shorten the leading boat otherwise all hell breaks loose.

We do also have a 'common sense' rule that if the RO does not do this then a boat of the same class that is ahead of another boat of the same class on the water cannot then finish behind them on corrected time.

That is by no means perfect and the correct procedure as stated in the SIs should be followed as this will largely prevent any issues such as this.

Where you get lapped boats there can still be an issue but that is the joys of Handicap racing!

The other thing is they should qualify that it should be once the first boat in that fleet has been shortened (or finished) then all boat in that fleet shall also be finished next time they corss the finish line. Otherwise you may get one fleet being shortened then all boats behind them regardless of fleet get finished which makes a huge mess.

It comes down to 2 things:

1) The SC writing clear SIs (or whoever does it at your club)

2) The RO/Duty Team understanding the SIs and being able to apply them correctly andeffectively

Being RO is not an easy task and is sometimes a thankless task but if you follow what is laid down then normally you are OK....

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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74

Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 26 Jan 11 at 2:51pm

Marke, your solution seems very sensible, and a fair way of getting results.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 8:14pm

Testing...

Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 8:54pm

Originally posted by jeffers

If you find yourself in this situation I would request redress as, in my opion, the race has not be conducted fairly and you have been unfairly disavantaged by actions outside of your control.

Been there, done that...I even went to RYA appeal.

Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 8:59pm

Originally posted by JimC

The main thing is to have plenty of short laps: you really want the fast boats to be doing at least five.

The second thing is for the RC to be vey careful about where they divide the fleet: this is difficult, but I can usually manage to avoid splitting the leaders in the bigger classes...

I'm amazed it happened twice in a weekend unless they were setting long courses and very few laps.

Long course, too few laps, splitting leaders of a fleet, variable conditions...that was the recipe.

Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 01 Feb 11 at 9:10pm

The RYA document on 'Average lap racing';

http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/technical/Web%20Documents/2007%20Portsmouth%20Yardstick%20Scheme/2007%205%20Average%20Lap%20Racing.pdf - http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/technical/Web%20Documents/2007%20Portsmouth%20Yardstick%20Scheme/2007%205%20Average%20Lap%20Racing.pdf

does contain an adjustment calculation for boats of same PN completing different number of laps, but most clubs stick to a 'basic' method. It also doesn't address a situation if the less laps boat has a faster PN!

Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 02 Feb 11 at 12:09am

What you have to remember is that nothing is perfect. Whilst the fewer laps/ahead is an isue that's visible to everyone, if you don't average lap and get big changes the distortions in the results will be far worse and for more likely, but apply between classes not amongst them.