Also are these rules allowed to be modified by the SIs (I guess they are given your knowledge of the rules Bras)?

 

No problem with legality.  Rule 86.1(b) deals with what rules can and cannot be changed by the SI.

SI cannot change any rules in:

·         Definitions (except the size of the zone)

·         Sportsmanship and the Rules

·          Part 1 – Fundamental Rules

·         Part 2 – When Boats Meet

·         Part 7 – Race Organisation.

SI can change: anything in:

·         Part 3 – Conduct of a Race

·         Part 4 – Other Requirements When Racing except rule 42 Propulsion and rule 43 Competitor Clothing and Equipment

·         Part 5 – Protests, Redress, Hearings, Misconduct and Appeals, except Rule 69 Allegations of Gross Misconduct, Rule 70 Appeals and Requests to a National Authority, and Rule 71 National Authority Decisions.

·         Part 6 – Entry and Qualification, except Rule 75 Entering a Race, Rule 76 Exclusion of Boats or Competitors, Rule 79 Classification, and Rule 80 Advertising

So a race committee can rewrite the whole publication of SI and NOR, signals, starting and finishing, rounding and touching marks, protesting and penalties rules if they’re silly enough (and if they use the magic words ‘this changes rule xx’).

 If a starboard tacker was forced over by a port tacker your would be looking at exoneration under rule 64.1(c), rather than a redress:  a boat cannot be given redress for the consequences of another boat breaking a rule unless it causes injury or physical damage (rule 62.1(b)).

 

Possible circumstances that have been suggested to me are:

There was also possibly a concern for the case where only a few boats may have been positively identified, and then a whole bunch of other boats, who could not be identified went over early, so the notion was that it was 'unfair' to exclude those few boats that had been identified, while a larger number of boats were over early but escaped exclusion because they could not be identified.

 

No, exclusion of BFD boats applies even after a General Recall or Abandonment (after the starting signal).  The only way the rule lets you off is if the race is postponed or abandoned before the starting signal.

 

30.3 Black Flag Rule

If a black flag has been displayed, no part of a boat’s hull, crew or equipment shall be in the triangle formed by the ends of the starting line and the first mark during the last minute before her starting signal. If a boat breaks this rule and is identified, she shall be disqualified without a hearing, even if the race is restarted or resailed, but not if it is postponed or abandoned before the starting signal. If a general recall is signalled or the race is abandoned after the starting signal, the race committee shall display her sail number before the next warning signal for that race, and if the race is restarted or resailed she shall not sail in it. If she does so, her disqualification shall not be excluded in calculating her series score.

 

Slightly off topic.

I agree with your interpretation but am vehemently against the rule being allowed to cover the start line. As there is such a big advantage to being a length or two over there should be NO circumstances where it is allowed. I think the remedy for S is to restart [if no BF] and protest. Redress should be allowed in such circumstances after a successful protest.

 

Given the lack of really skillful and experienced race officers, even at a Worlds, I would not be surprised to see the PRO being preoccupied with identifying BFDs and watching the line, so that his or her first response when unidentifiable boats got over early in the last few seconds before the signal was taken up in making the decision about the discretion whether or not to signal General Recall, so that there was no time left to go to AP before the starting signal, and General Recall was the only thing left to do.

 

I absolutely agree that a better solution than writing a SI, is to rely on the race officer to come up with a 'legal fiction', that he could not be sure of the identities of any of the boats over early, thus no boats were BFD.

 

The mechanisms for 'undoing' BFD once numbers have been posted are messy at best.

 

I really don't think whether the line is 'good' or not is a relevant consideration.  I don't agree that a biased line (no matter how biased) forces any boat to be over early.  It is up to the competitors to assess the condition and make sure they are not over early.

 

 

I agree that if there is no general recall, merely gaining exoneration for breaking rule 30.3 will not suffice:  Unless she returns and restarts, once the boat finishes she will have have failed to comply with rule 28.1, for which she cannot be exonerated:  she may have been compelled to enter the triangle early, but nothing compelled her to race on without returning and starting in accordance with the definition of start.

 

Even if there were grounds for redress for a breach of sportsmanship under rule 62.1(d), I think failure to return and start in accordance with the definition remains a fault of the boat requesting redress and rules out redress.

 

I think things are somewhat different where there is a General Recall.  In that case, if a boat is entitled to be exonerated because she was compelled to break rule 30.3 (by entering the triangle) by another boat (say a rogue port tacker) breaking a rule, then she is under no obligation to retire (and Basic Principle should be 'read down' to include 'unless she is entitled to be exonerated under rule 64.1(c)').  Once she is entitled to be exonerated for breaking rule 30.3, following the General Recall, she should be allowed to act on her entitlement and sail in the restarted race, and following a successful protest hearing confirming her exoneration, to be scored in the place she gained in the resailed race instead of DNE.

 

Thank you Brass,

I tried unsuccessfully the other night to post (a rather less well worded version of) what you state.

 

I would only add that it would be advisable for the boat to inform race committee of intention to exercise its entitlement to sail in restarted race to ensure that it doesn't automatically incur a DNE, with the race committee failing to note its finish position (pending successful protest hearing).

 

Probably prudent to make the attempt, but I don't know how welcome that snippet of conversation would be on a RC Boat going flat out to organise a Black Flag restart.  Last time I was there, that involved taking up an engineroom floorboard to make a whiteboard to display sail numbers on <g>.

 

I agree it's a high risk play.  It's even higher than you describe.  You cannot get average points in the hearing:  it will be a hearing of your protest, the best you can get is the other boat DSQ and you exonerated for breaking rule 30.3 by being in the triangle early.  If you don't sail in the restarted race, the exoneration will change your BFD into a DNS, which in a championship regatta is no change in points at all.  To get average points, you need redress, which depends on an improper action or omission by the race committee, damage by the rule breaking boat causing your score to be worse, rule 2/69 breach by the other boat, or giving help.  Except for a very faint chance on the rule 2 ground, it is extremely unlikely that you can justify redress.

 

I agree that the Black Flag Rule doesn't deal well with these problems, but remember it's a last resort rule to get a start away when the fleet is otherwise hopelessly unruly.

 

It was not a black flag start but I was at a championship in 2000 where a P&S incident forced S over the line. He continued and later protested... and won. It affected the top 3 placings but after 8 pints of Guinness your not bitter!

Looking at the rule I see nothing that stops a protest committee from coming too this interpretation.