My winter Project
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: How old is your boat?
Forum Discription: Antiques or brand new... tell us here!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7356
Printed Date: 26 Jun 25 at 5:02am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: My winter Project
Posted By: kfz
Subject: My winter Project
Date Posted: 14 Nov 10 at 11:41am
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Here is theo ld girl. The idea to do a faithful restoration, but keep her as sailable as possible. Ive some history. Shes a 1951 GP14 sail number 47. Im enjoying it.    Kev ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Replies:
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 14 Nov 10 at 5:40pm
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A classic of a boat, I take it, the boat has a wooden mast as pictured? What have you got to do to the boat? ------------- |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 14 Nov 10 at 6:30pm
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Richard, Yep the wood spars came with her. Where to start, the transom is rotten and the centreboard case is a state. She has been re floored at some point do the main hull and frames are good. The deck is a bit hows your father (there a hole in the port quarter) and the starboard topsides need a new panel. good bits Ive managed to get a faithful rudder/stock and tiller, weve managed to most of the lovely brass brightwork and best of all lucked out and found some original cotton sails in practically unused condition. Kev ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 14 Nov 10 at 6:31pm
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Oh and I forget to mention that a very kind poster here has kindly donated my a cotton Spinny. ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: rogerd
Date Posted: 14 Nov 10 at 6:56pm
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Kfz,
Good to see you taking her on. If you want any advice or support go to the cvrda website( http://www.cvrda.org - www.cvrda.org ). We are devoted to bringing these boat out of th sheds and dinghy parks and getting them sailing again. we even handicap boats according to age and originality so extra pointsfor the wooden mast and cotton spinney. Maybe she will be the 2011 winner of the cotton sail challenge..
Keep us posted on progress with mre pics please. cant wait to see her sailing again.
Roger
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Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 14 Nov 10 at 7:30pm
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Thanks Roger for the encouragement. Who knows, we are building up a bit of the following with old Gp14's, sail numbers under 100. More and more boats are coming up all he time (number 3 has just surfaced) .We had a rally this year and hopefully it will become an annual event. Kev ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 14 Nov 10 at 7:40pm
yeah and seeing this reminded me and I went and got it from the boat shed and it's now in the kitchen waiting to be posted. Sorry, I'm being fairly crap at getting this done... ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 14 Nov 10 at 9:15pm
Boat shed - vision is some massive dry storage for nessa to refit her boats reality is probably a normal garden shed that has no garden related items in it. Well Done Nessa for the donation to a great project. ------------- |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 15 Nov 10 at 4:26am
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reality is a shed that just and just fits the phantom inside it, with a little space down one side for me to get up and down. Two old school style cupboard-lockers at one end, turned on their side and full of sails with a hideous array of old boat bits strewn over the top. and no, no garden related items allowed! Kev, somewhere at the club there are also the floorboards from the old boat we dismantled. They are quite nice, so if you're ever down this way. .... The cvrda is a caring, sharing group; come and join us! ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 15 Nov 10 at 9:48am
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WI, I'd definitely be interested if there the original slatted type floorboards and they are in good condition. Where about are you? Us GP restorer's are all over so I can put the word out if you want to get rid of them. Normally the original slatted mahogany board ones are in demand as it was a common upgrade to swap for plywood so most of the old ones where tossed. Regrds Kev ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 15 Nov 10 at 9:54am
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Some more pics Keel, hog and floor quite sound.   ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 15 Nov 10 at 10:57am
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This convinces me that my marauder is the worst restoration attempt known to mankind. I'm failry sure the floorboards are not plywood (we have ply ones in the club boats) I will have a look when I'm there tomorrow. We definitely thought them worth saving at the time, even though we didn't know what we were saving them for. I am just outside Cambridge. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 15 Nov 10 at 1:54pm
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Its not all plain sailing she has her *challanges*. Transom knackered.  Centreboard is beyond economic repair but not complete repair  A good size hole in the deck, aft is pretty delamintaed too....  Kev
------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 15 Nov 10 at 8:33pm
Here is my winter project.
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Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 15 Nov 10 at 9:03pm
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I presume the keels are coming off?
------------- Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard" Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile" |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 15 Nov 10 at 9:09pm
| I have read some bits about taking the keels off......don't they add strength ? |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 15 Nov 10 at 9:29pm
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She looks old. What is she? Why would you want to take the keels off for? ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 15 Nov 10 at 9:41pm
| She is a cold moulded National 12, early 1980's I think...... Taking the keels off ? I guess improve speed ? |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 15 Nov 10 at 9:45pm
This is before I started with the sander...
 |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 15 Nov 10 at 10:20pm
Yep slightly and being a development class, class rules permit it? Kev ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 16 Nov 10 at 7:45am
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do you mean the spray rails? on the marauder they are an integral feature of the design (apparently) and Peter Milne was renowned for them, so they will be staying on.
------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 16 Nov 10 at 8:06am
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It was a rule change in the mid/late 90's. Some suggest it improves tacking speed, you can also do away with the keelband holding the slot gasket and go for a glued one if you so desire. Really you have to ask yourself why leave them on... When we did it to my Cheshire Cat it involved a friend and an electric plane (while watching out for screws and nails. The concern is whether the keels are structural in any way. Hopefully your question on the class forum will answer that. I would have thought the bilge keels wouldn't be, but the centre keel might require consideration. ------------- Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard" Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile" |
Posted By: rogerd
Date Posted: 16 Nov 10 at 4:52pm
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KFZ I have just heard of someone breaking an oldish GP for parts in Wiltshire. I can forward you his email if you are interested. Its near me so I can go and look if you want.
Also the cvrda travelling members often ship parts around the country on their travels.
Rog
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Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 16 Nov 10 at 6:00pm
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That includes us and we do the Wiltshire - North Staffordshire run about every six weeks if car-sized things such as sails, rudders, centreboards etc need shipping.
It's how we got nicknamed HalfCut and What-a-Lark removals
 |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 17 Nov 10 at 7:48am
Rog, Definitely interested. As normal There are few bits Im struggling for. I'll send you a PM. Regrds Kev ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: rogerd
Date Posted: 17 Nov 10 at 7:56am
| pm to you as well |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 19 Nov 10 at 8:45pm
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13.11.2010 Centreboard case dissembled, and the varnish, paint, glassfibre and epoxy mixture removed. . Main problems
If this was any other boat or it was a refit with no respect of historical reasons then It would be a lot easer to just source a replacement case.
17.11.2010 Centreboard case cracks routed out and filled with epoxy. Bit bodgy but should be good strong enough to hold
Kev
------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: nathan
Date Posted: 20 Nov 10 at 10:48pm
| Great blog, keep us informed. We should have more of these- very interesting read... |
Posted By: Webmuppet
Date Posted: 20 Nov 10 at 11:12pm
Totally agree, inspirational stuff !  Nigel ------------- I am the milkman of human kindness, I will leave an extra pint (Billy Bragg) Graduate 2530 'Galaxy' |
Posted By: Contender 541
Date Posted: 21 Nov 10 at 11:56am
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I have to be honest that I had zero interest in this until I started reading.
I am fascinated and loving the step by step process - more please ------------- When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss Crew on 505 8780 |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 21 Nov 10 at 1:15pm
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Glad you guys are enjoying.... ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 21 Nov 10 at 7:20pm
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Mostly worked on the centreboard case today, but not a great deal to show for it, slow going. I did prep the hole in the port quarter to take a patch, should be a neat job. Note how Ive cut away to leave a lip and give the patch support. Ive got some oak (try and save my mahogany) to make some support shoulders out will either Screw and gorilla glue them in or just epoxy. Kev  ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 22 Nov 10 at 10:11pm
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20.11.2010 Centreboard crack now filled with epoxy. Using room temperature slightly thinned with the hot air gun and easy on the hardener to give a long cure time
Very happy with this repair its a bit of a bodge but not sure what else could have been done without major woodworking surgery. I guess the proper chippy solution would be to mill out a complete section and replace with fresh wood. The very slow process of wood fillets, not only are they slow to make having to be fitted by hand then have to wait 24 hours without disturbing the case while the glue cures. Again I used Gorilla glue to wetted surfaces. Though I think epoxy may arguably be better, if even slower. Also very lucky to have a good wood match with the unobtainable mahogany, a salvage kindly donated.
The cutout in the front section of the case also needs to be filled with a fillet, going to take some careful fitting. ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Nov 10 at 11:21pm
Ah. Not a good idea. Epoxy works quite differently to things like Aerolite or Polyester. With polyester or aerolite glues the hardener is a catalyst that takes no part in the chemical reaction, it just kicks it off. So less or more hardener, which is in small quanties, just affects cure time. With epoxy resin the two components combine, so if you mess with the proportions then you end up with unreacted resin (or hardener) so you are compromising the strength and wasting money. That's why you get different speed hardeners with epoxy so that you can control the reaction speed without changing the mix ratio. |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 23 Nov 10 at 6:58am
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True- though if well formulated they'll go about 10% of the hardener either way without huge issues- more than that and you'll risk (especially with too little hardener) a sticky mess
------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 23 Nov 10 at 7:57am
Woa Jim calm down. Its was roughly 5 to 1 (as per the blurb), didnt measure it his time as my measuing cylinder has expired. I normally mix it a bit more hardener as Im working outside but didnt this time I was inside and the mix was warm to start with. Kev ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Nov 10 at 8:45am
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I think you're still partially missing the point. Because its a reaction of two components, not a catalysed reaction of the monomer, changing the proportions will not usefully change the cure speed, only waste material, reduce strength and risk it not curing properly at all.
The little plastic measuring cups that come with some cough medicines and the like are handy for measuring epoxy. For even smaller quantities try measuring spoons! |
Posted By: I luv Wight
Date Posted: 23 Nov 10 at 8:55am
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It will change the cure speed if you don't get close to the required ratio... to very very very long = never ! I always use digital kitchen scales and never* get it rubbery, - doing it by volume results in duff mixes  * well almost never, it does happen very occasionally, but maybe one mix in a thousand when I get my numbers wrong  ------------- " rel="nofollow - http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk Andy P foiling Int Moth GBR3467 Freedom 21 Codling |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 23 Nov 10 at 9:10am
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Jim, No you are, its mixed in the correct proportion. I will change the blog, its not clear. I will leave the post above otherwise the thread doesnt make sense if I amend it. sorry, I understand not to change the proportions. Kev ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 23 Nov 10 at 10:14am
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Jim's point rather stands though- not great practice to add more "to make it go quicker outside" as you'll make the final resin worse.
As for voume verus weight? Remember the proportions are different. They'll hopefully be close, but will vary due to density differences. We've got a product designed for 2:1 by volume cartridges that is 100:45 by weight. (though formulated with a much smaller tollerance than your marine stuff) ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Nov 10 at 11:34am
Always worth remembering that: the "retail" resins like SP106 aren't as good as the commercial ones like say Ampreg in many ways, but they are more tolerant of the hamfisted (like me!). And as alstorer says the density of resin and hardener varies so weight!= volume and you need to do the mixes correctly. In my messy cramped and untidy workshop I'm not sure scales would survice so I use SP106 rather than something theoretically superior because it won't be superior with me using it and I don't think scales would survive! |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 28 Nov 10 at 7:26pm
  Not much to say there really. Its really slow going. But after weeks its starting to look a little better. Going to be a slog but Im keen to preserve as much original boat as possible. Kev ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 08 Mar 11 at 12:12pm
Centreboard case is on the home straight now. real labour of love to save this old wood, would have been much much easier to knock a new one up on the table saw. and the boom is now plugged and corners remade.  Kev ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 12 Oct 11 at 7:43pm
Latest progress ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 12 Oct 11 at 7:45pm
  ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: rogerd
Date Posted: 13 Oct 11 at 6:38pm
When youve finished that one I have another that needs tlc.
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Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 14 Oct 11 at 7:53pm
In the words of the greater man than myself..... Dont stop me now, Im having such a good time.... ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 19 Dec 11 at 10:04am
Avanti!
 ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 01 Feb 12 at 12:08pm
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and heres one I prepared earlier, not really...,,   New transom fitted, new edge, new rubbing strip.
Kev
------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 17 Mar 12 at 8:34am
| Nice project, but would it not have been easier to replace the decks while you were at it? |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 21 Mar 12 at 12:24pm
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I Dont think so. The decks initially looked pretty bad but plenty of sanding and some surgury has got them passible. pretty happy with them really.
------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 24 Apr 12 at 9:23am
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Havent posted for a a while....
Deck Sealer Coat 2
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kevin.foote/R0012193.JPG">
 Colour coat 1
 Kev ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |
Posted By: kfz
Date Posted: 29 May 12 at 2:12pm
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Havent updated for a little while
.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60904565@N08/7293441350/">
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/60904565@N08/7293441350/ - R0012313-001 by http://www.flickr.com/people/60904565@N08/ - lsc2006 , on Flickr Big Plug for the guys at CVRDA and the vintage section of the GP14 Association
Kev ------------- GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club http://www.liverpoolsailingclub.org/ - Liverpool SC |