Miracle Main Sheeting
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Beginner questions
Forum Discription: Advice for those who are new to sailing
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7101
Printed Date: 01 Jun 25 at 11:53pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Miracle Main Sheeting
Posted By: Steve H
Subject: Miracle Main Sheeting
Date Posted: 02 Sep 10 at 4:38pm
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I am very happy with a rear main sheet on the miracle as I feel more comfortable facing backwards when tacking. The class rules allow the conversion but the boat has to retail the connection to the transom with via a strop or track, so as far as I can see, there is no real difference in control over the sail and by putting a centre main in, I may have to reduce the lenght of my tiller extension However, my son is starting to take an interest in helming and as all the newer boats that he (and maybe I) might want one day have centre sheeting, I am thinking of making the modification, but can anyone tell me if there is a compelling reason to do so other than facing forward when tacking/gybing and having something to pull the sail over in the gybe? Thanks Steve |
Replies:
Posted By: Garry
Date Posted: 02 Sep 10 at 5:47pm
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Much better control because you can see where you are
going, reduces the risk of a capsize on a windy gybe quiet a lot imho. You won't have anything to pull the sail over with unless you fit a gybing strop, mainsheet pull only works when all the falls are in the centre and you grab them all. Garry ------------- Garry Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
Posted By: English Dave
Date Posted: 02 Sep 10 at 6:22pm
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I take Garry's point about seeing where you are going but, that aside, (and I accept it's a big but) I would say there's not much advantage. Centre main sheeting makes it a bit more difficult to get your weight all the way forward in the really light stuff. And as you say, it's not real centre main. You still have some falls going to the transom so all you've done is add more stuff to get caught up in. It is nice to see where you are going though and I think it's easier to put a really good roll tack in with centre mainsheet as well. ------------- English Dave http://www.ballyholme.com - Ballyholme Yacht Club (You'd think I'd be better at it by now) Hurricane 5.9 SX RS700 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 02 Sep 10 at 7:05pm
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Its interesting that when the Topper class did a proper evaluation of Transom Main versus Centre main: to my knowledge the only such evaluation that has *ever* been done by *anyone*, the numbers came back with a tiny but statistically signifcant advantage for the stern sheeting.
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Posted By: English Dave
Date Posted: 02 Sep 10 at 10:38pm
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Interesting point Jim. I get the impression that some of
the centre main conversions have been "fashion". The Topper does it cos the Laser does it and the topper is a feeder class. There seems to be a blanket view that centre main is "racey" and that transom main is "so 1970". On most cats we dont have a choice. The trampoline isnt study enough to withstand the 10:1 loads needed to close such a long leech so transom sheeting it is. My personal opinion, for the little that it's worth, is that if a boat is designed for transom sheeting and you want to convert (and if class rules allow) is to sheet from the boom but keep the falls at the transom. But for a Miracle, I don't think it will make enough difference to make it worth while (ditto the Topper btw). ------------- English Dave http://www.ballyholme.com - Ballyholme Yacht Club (You'd think I'd be better at it by now) Hurricane 5.9 SX RS700 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 02 Sep 10 at 11:25pm
| The Topper conversion was politics rather than fashion: to ensure it didn't get dropped from the RYA list in favour of the ghastly 4.7 because it was the only boat on the youth pathway with stern sheeting... |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 03 Sep 10 at 8:56am
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Were there any classes pre-Laser that used the "hybrid" centre-pull, rear-purchase it uses? As far as rear-with off-boom at the centre goes, I can't think of any pure-hiking boats other than the b14 that use this? Mainly seems to be a trapeze thing? Had the Mirror gone centre main before the Topper? What about the Cadet (thinking "Pathway" classes)? ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 03 Sep 10 at 9:06am
Plenty of bigger boats: not sure about dinghies. Off the boom centre sheeting with the main purchase at the transom has been the predominant sheeting arrangement on cruising boats on the Norfolk Broads from at least the 1930s for example... |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 03 Sep 10 at 9:18am
Bonito, and it needs it for that massive unsupported leech. The streaker has the same system too. A lot of thre mirros I've seen lately are still using aft sheeting to give the crew more room. I am currently contemplating fitting this aft purchase centre pull to my old kestrel, which would have been aft sheeted, but I'm put off by the vast lengths of main sheet I will need. Oh, and I think the contender was originally stern sheeted too...  wouldn't have wanted to tack that in a hurry.------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 03 Sep 10 at 9:23am
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I remember seeing footage of a Spanish Cadet with centre-led mainsheet at least 5 years before they were allowed in the UK.
How many classes still have transom sheeting (on the top boats) then? There does seem to be the feeling that it is "so 1970s" as mentioned above! But is that right?!! Comet Enterprise Leader National 12 Wanderer What have I missed? |
Posted By: Barty
Date Posted: 03 Sep 10 at 12:47pm
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I had 2 mirrors, one which I converted to centre and one aft. I would have to say that there was no benefit at all in the centre boat, its just too small so introduces more problems than it solves. I now have a Miracle which again I converted to centre main. 2:1 on the back with a strop on the transom and a ratchet with cleat on the back of the c'case. I also bought a new boom which was cut so that the mainsheet runs inside it to keep it out the way. I went sailing a couple of weeks ago with my 5 year old and I let him helm (good F2 gusting 3). All I did was sit on the thwart facing the transom, he did the stick and I did the main.....perfect! I prefer centre as I think the tacks are neater but having raced Ent's and Lasers I agree that there isn't much in it. For kids the centremain option just means you can help them when it breezy. ------------- http://www.highlandtopper.com - For Topper boats & spares in Scotland-highlandtopper.com |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 03 Sep 10 at 1:01pm
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Isn't the lack of space in the Mirror with centre main why they're going to Gnavs? ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Barty
Date Posted: 03 Sep 10 at 1:05pm
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With the normal kicker it doesn't matter if its rear or centre there isn't enough room for anyone over the age of 10. The GNAV for the Mirror looks good but isn't very effective but then any adult just uses the mainsheet tension as the kicker! ------------- http://www.highlandtopper.com - For Topper boats & spares in Scotland-highlandtopper.com |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 Sep 10 at 1:36pm
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I sail boats with both systems. If sailing inland on small water in mainly light winds, the aft main allows much better movement around the boat. If sailing on open water in stronger winds, the centre main allows for better sheeting angles and more control gybing. So, each has its day, and beyond that it becomes a personal decision.
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 03 Sep 10 at 6:48pm
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Of course the joy of having an older boat is that the traveller track is always there if you want to swap around, which is what we do with the club GPs.
------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Steve H
Date Posted: 04 Sep 10 at 1:59pm
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Thanks for the advice. It's interesting to see that about the toppers. I think I will do the conversion and see how I get on. It is easy to convert it back, if I can't get on with it. Thanks again Steve |
Posted By: Owenfackrell
Date Posted: 04 Oct 10 at 10:34pm
| My Miracle has centremain and it also has cleat which makes tacking very easy when sail either singlehanded or with my daughter as I don't need to worry about keeping a tight hd on the mainsheet. Mine picks up on the centre board case and that means the aft section of the cockpit is clear. Wether it offers any speed advantage don't know but you only need to look forward. |
Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 05 Oct 10 at 8:20am
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I sail a Nat 12 with the almost obligatory aft main arrangement. I find it works well in all conditions apart from downwind when it is honking and you need to hang over the transom to stop the nosedives. At that point it always feels odd sat next to the mainsheet.
Overall, to my mind the freedom to move around the cockpit outweighs any perceived benefit of centre main. I also sail a boat(RS300) with a centre main which I could not imagine ever being right with a transom main! |
Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 05 Oct 10 at 10:06am
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In most short boats you have to consider the weight distribution during tacks as well. Hence the classic Europe centre mainsheet tack while facing backwards.
------------- Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard" Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile" |
Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 05 Oct 10 at 1:58pm
| I know of a Laser sailor who faces aft when he tacks with the mainsheet locked in a centre jammer. Looks wrong but it seems to work well particularly in light airs |