Confusng Situations
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6988
Printed Date: 28 Jun 25 at 5:37pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Confusng Situations
Posted By: rich96
Subject: Confusng Situations
Date Posted: 31 Jul 10 at 5:51pm
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A couple of situations have arisen recently: 1. Standard situation - a starboard tack boat is approachiong to windward mark (to be left to starboard) and a port tacker is converging. Starboard tacker maintains his courrse until port tacker has to tack off (port wasnt high enough to duck starboard and still clear the mark). Port tacker says that illegal - suggests that he only needs to give room for a rounding ?. Surely at the windward mark the right of way boat can sail on as far as he wishes ?
2. Two starboard tackers approach the windward mark on the layline (to be left to starboard). They are not overlapped but the boat in front cant tack fast enough to prevent boat behind clipping him if he wishes. Boat behind scream "dont tack" etc How does the boat ahead round the mark in the lead ?. This would be worse if, say, 8 boats all followed each other towards the mark.
Any help would be great. |
Replies:
Posted By: Quagers
Date Posted: 31 Jul 10 at 7:21pm
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for situation 1, room at the mark does not apply to boats on different tacks on a beat, so yes the starboard tacker can carry
on, its a standard move in team racing. Situation 2, not sure but I would say that when tacking you lose your rights so if you cant tack and clear then you are stuffed. |
Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 31 Jul 10 at 7:28pm
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My take...... 1. I agree starboard may continue and force port to tack off, this should widen the gap between the boats and give starboard clearer air on the following reach/run. 2. Starboard leading boat should slow within the 3 boats length circle and force the following boat to overlap, if the following boat goes for the inside she has no right to room, and if she goes outside there is room for the leading boat to tack without fowling. These situations happen all the time with starboard roundings of a windward mark and cause all sorts of problems...
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Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 02 Aug 10 at 9:41am
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Situation 1. Rule 18 does not apply. Rule 10 applies and port tack boat must keep clear; Situation 2 Boat 1 is clear ahead. Boat 2 must keep clear and give mark room. However, as Boat 1 is not overlapped to windward mark room does not include room to tack. If Boat 1 passes head to wind rule 18 ceases to apply, rule 13 applies and Boat 1 must keep clear. As Boat 2 has acquired right of way through the actions of Boat 1 rule 15 does not apply and Boat 2 is not required to give room for Boat 1 to keep clear. In match racing Boat 1 would slow to try and force Boat 2 to go outside. Gordon ------------- Gordon |
Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 02 Aug 10 at 11:10am
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Gordon
A nice clear explanation of Situation 2. Quite scary how few people (in my experience)actually seem to understand it or choose to ignore it in practice and tack round a mark without any regards to the boat behind. |
Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 02 Aug 10 at 1:48pm
i could not agree more martin, shame you did not remember it at mark no 1 the week i sailed elaines moth!!!!!!!!!!  ------------- |
Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 02 Aug 10 at 4:56pm
 Duncan. I'm struggling to remember the finer detail but I do have a recollection of tangling with you during a rounding of Mark no 1 a while back. However, unlike Situation 2 described by the OP, I thought the approach to it on that day was sailing offwind from No 4 or similar and heading up close hauled as we rounded. If it is the same incident I don't recollect actually tacking to round the mark before leaving it astern and getting in your way.
Shame that we did not discuss this on the day really.... |
Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 03 Aug 10 at 3:44am
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sorry mate it was the same. we were coming from no6 and going to no 4. we were both on starboard, you were clear ahead and tacked wide round no1, i shouted starboard and you told me i could not do that because you had rights at the mark! thats why i find this thread so so so very very funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ------------- |
Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 03 Aug 10 at 8:33am
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Well enjoy your laugh at my expense mate, but my recollection of the situation is that I went into the zone clear ahead, you tried to get into gap between me and the mark and the door was shut on you and we tangled whilst rounding the mark. I recall my rounding of the mark involved heading up on a closehauled course and any tack came after I had left the mark astern and not as part of the rounding (which this thread discussion was originally about)
If I was aggrieved at being called starboard on it was because I felt that there were unresolved issues from our tangling during the mark rounding. Like I said it would have been good to have discussed it further at the time but if I recall correctly you retired from the race after that incident which made it impossible. |
Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 03 Aug 10 at 2:24pm
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i retired because i did not want to risk elaines boat, if i had been sailing the lightning i would have discussed it with you on the water, loudly! because you had not cleared the mark. therefore, if you were clear ahead coming to the mark, tack onto port and i am still on starboard at the mark. who has the rights? anyway mate,let it go mate,its not important. at least i know the rules for next time, which is the only important thing. look after yourself and i hope you have good sailing for the next few weeks.  i will not be sailing at the club for atleast four weeks( weddings,moth nationals, holidays and club duties are all getting in the way) and i promise not to post for a while!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------- |
Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 04 Aug 10 at 8:19am
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Duncan
Having sat on protest committees where protestor and protestee could not agree on what actually happened one hour after the race. The likelihood of you and I now agreeing to exactly that actually happened months ago and therefore coming up with the correct resolution is pretty much zilch. If the situation happened as you describe (which is where we do not fully agree) then clearly your question has already been answered earlier in this thread. So live long and prosper 
We are away this weekend but will be at the Club next Wednesday evening. Not sure when we will see you guys next so can you get in contact (not via forum ) to discuss arrangements for keys etc.
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 04 Aug 10 at 10:36am
It may of course be apocryphal, but I heard a story of a protest hearing where about the only thing the two parties could agree on was that they were both on port. Some video evidence turned up, which was very little help as is often the case, but one of the few things it did clarify was that both parties were on starboard... The human memory is a very strange thing! |
Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 04 Aug 10 at 11:12am
cheers, will be in touch. ------------- |