Fastest Skiff?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=625
Printed Date: 10 May 25 at 8:22pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Fastest Skiff?
Posted By: wallynomore
Subject: Fastest Skiff?
Date Posted: 11 Apr 05 at 7:55pm
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I have been set a mission of finding the fastest skiff style dingy so I would like to put it to the gurus that regularly frequent this website to come up with a final solution. The size has to be between 4-6 metres and we are not going down the cat road. Price no object just all out speed. Give me your best ideas and get creative. |
Replies:
Posted By: bigwavedave
Date Posted: 11 Apr 05 at 8:16pm
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18ft skiff ------------- 
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Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 11 Apr 05 at 9:08pm
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Yes 18ft skiff at ordinary windspeeds and sailed by olympians. RS800 probably for mere mortals who have spent plenty of time practicing. Laser 4000 for weekend sailors in plenty of breeze. I could go on and include a 5o5 (which doesn't fit my idea of a skiff) but must be the fastest thing in very little wind. But now thinking about it, is a Moth a skiff, and if so it must have the highest speed to length ratio? Have I mudded the water enough? |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 11 Apr 05 at 9:35pm
yer i would say that the moth is a skiff but a weird one!! ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: wallynomore
Date Posted: 11 Apr 05 at 9:51pm
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OK so after checking the website it looks like the 18' skiff is the way forward, thanks there bigwavedave.
Has anyone got some idea on the polars or at least an estimation of what speeds these rockets have achieved, upwind as well as down wind and in what wind speeds? |
Posted By: Mike278
Date Posted: 11 Apr 05 at 9:53pm
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though not sailed in the UK, a 12ft Skiff, which have been timed at up to 25 knots ------------- Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night. |
Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 12 Apr 05 at 11:08am
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For 18 foot Skiff polars look in High Performance Sailing by Frank Bethwaite - there are tens of pages on the subject which are still pretty good performance indicators. UK Cherubs lastest speeds are just under 20kts with their old small rigs last weekend... |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 12 Apr 05 at 2:19pm
mike the 18 foot skiff is raced in the uk!! ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 12 Apr 05 at 2:59pm
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The 18 is probably the fastest but a major hassle to set up, need 3 experienced crew, cost mega money and have a good circuit, but most sailors only opt to race on the circuit just due to the hassle which is intailed with the boat. The fastest double handed sailboat in the world is the 49er. The power to crew weight ratio for the 49er is probably higher, she is a much more responsive boat to sail and if sailed properly CAN pace an 18. Comparitive handicaps for the boats are 695 for the 18 and 747 for the 49er, so there's not much in it. Plus you can sail the 49er every weekend, she isn't much of a hassle to set up and there is a really strong circuit for her right across the UK. We've clocked 49ers doing upwards of 25 knots moving into 30s region by tracking the boat with a car along the shore. In less wind we'd say she's easily capable of acheiving 20 knots down wind without too much effort, and she is really fast upwind. I haven't sailed anything quicker than the 49er. Only until you sail the boat do you appreciate how quick she is. Before I sailed one, I used to sail 5000s and thought on a good day the 5000 could pace a 49er but there is no-way that I believe that to be possible now. The speed difference is so great. The 49er is in my opinion, just uncomparable to anything else, except the 18 and I reckon they are on level terms overall. ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 12 Apr 05 at 4:50pm
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Who cares? They are all fun to sail and have pro's and con's.
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Posted By: Mike278
Date Posted: 12 Apr 05 at 6:45pm
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except i was talking about 12ft skiffs ------------- Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night. |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 12 Apr 05 at 7:36pm
lol sorry mate!!! well the 12 footers are just like cherubs!!------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Mike278
Date Posted: 12 Apr 05 at 7:48pm
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But with a lot more sail ------------- Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night. |
Posted By: Spot192
Date Posted: 12 Apr 05 at 7:56pm
| and the amazing low hull weight of the cherubs!! they“re lighter than me! |
Posted By: wallynomore
Date Posted: 12 Apr 05 at 10:50pm
| Ok so I am looking now at presenting an option of an 18' skiff as this is reaching the goals that I have been set, all out speed being the main one, the next info I am after is where can I find one? I am in the Caribbean at the moment but will be in the Mediterranean from mid May, any one got any ideas. |
Posted By: Mike278
Date Posted: 12 Apr 05 at 11:18pm
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You could try looking at http://www.18footer.org/ - http://www.18footer.org/ or http://www.uk18footer.org/ - http://www.uk18footer.org/ ------------- Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night. |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 14 Apr 05 at 12:07pm
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Its just a nagging doubt in my mind but if you don't really know too much about skiffs, i.e which one is the fastest, should you really be considering jumping straight into an 18? If you are just starting out in skiffs, there are a lot of fast boats out there which are a good introduction to this side of the sport. Although its not the fastest, but still is really fast, an RS 800 might be a more suitable option. If you do know what you're doing, go for the fastest thing you can find but if your experience isn't too great, remember skiff racing can be a very dangerous sport especially if you don't know what you are doing. It's just a warning but I feel someone had to mention it at some point, and sorry for sounding daft if you do have a lot of experience in this side of the sport. ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Garry
Date Posted: 14 Apr 05 at 7:58pm
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If Walynomore had the experience would he need to ask the question? However, the posts seem to imply he is interested in the boat for its own sake and maybe trying one out (which could be done under controlled conditions)rather than owning or racing one! ------------- Garry Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
Posted By: wallynomore
Date Posted: 15 Apr 05 at 4:11pm
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Thanks for all your input, it is appreciated. To help with nagging problems yes I am fully aware of what is involved with trying to sail a skiff and hope that I don't have to take the responsibility of sailing one but always relish the chance of being onboard one. When I started this forum off it was with an opening line "I have been set a mission" I hope now I have achieved my mission and I am prepared to put forward what I have learned to the higher authorities who I have to report to. To let you know what I have come up with, I have to translate to a language that can be understood, to use car terminoligy it would be like a person trying to drive Michael Schumachers Ferrari but neglecting to learn how to drive before hand, it will end in tears. I hope I can come back to you guys again if this mission does not go away. |
Posted By: fergus h
Date Posted: 20 Apr 05 at 7:44pm
| does an ultra 30 not count as a skiff? |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 21 Apr 05 at 1:02pm
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i dont know cos it does have a keel but also has a massive spinni and loads of trapezes!! ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: stuarthop
Date Posted: 21 Apr 05 at 8:16pm
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they dont have keels do they i thought they had daggerboards. Correct me if i'm wrong ------------- |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 21 Apr 05 at 9:25pm
i am not sure ether but i would have though a boat that big might have a keel for stabillity!!  ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 21 Apr 05 at 10:08pm
UK Cherubs have been timed at that speed some 10 years ago. And that's the small rig. I would expect a 12 footer would be faster. Although more sail area doesn't equate to more speed. The new UK Cherub rig is about the same size as a 12 foot skiff No3 rig. Which they use in over 15 knots, I think. If Jimmy Walsh is out there I'm sure he will let us know. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: fergus h
Date Posted: 21 Apr 05 at 10:08pm
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might have a keel, i dont know, but does that automatically make it not a skiff? that sort of goes back to the 'definition of a skiff' discussion that every one keeps talking about.
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Posted By: ioanlavery
Date Posted: 21 Apr 05 at 10:13pm
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just been trawling through some old photos of when the Ultra30 fleet visited Cardiff. I have some pics with the boats on their trailers. Definately have dagger boards cos on they're trailers they sit no higher than the roof of a Landrover etc ------------- aka YoYo |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 21 Apr 05 at 10:32pm
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More sail area doesn't equate to more speed - in fact its the opposite. Once the sail has to be flogged you go considerably slower and you go a little bit slower if you have have part of the sail backwinded. The ideal is a rig which is just big enough to keep you fully extended - at that wind speed and angle. I believe ice yachts are an example, for maximum speed the rigs are too small to give any acceleration at low speed so the pilot has to get out and push. Once going the apparent wind increases and there is enough to accelerate the boat to higher speed which in turn increases the apparent wind even further and so until they are overpowered and they have to ease, at which point they are at maximum speed. You know the record is around 150mph! This is one of the reasons the Laser4000 is so fast, it has a modest sail area (if you can call 31 sq m modest) and so can be thrashed in a 25knot breeze. |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 22 Apr 05 at 3:47pm
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Didn't the Ultra's have a retractable keel? (remember, loads of guys had to stand on them when things went wrong). I reckon an 18 would be quicker than an Ultra 30 just due to the weight to sail area ratio. The 30s hull wouldn't unstick as much and as well as an 18s. The drag factor on a 30 would be much higher, so can't see them producing as much overall positive lift neither. ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 07 May 05 at 8:43pm
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yer! i havent seen any pictures of an ultra jumping out of the water or nosediving!! would be good to se tho!! ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Chunky
Date Posted: 17 Jun 05 at 10:37am
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The Ultra 30's did have a daggerboard but it did take 4 of us to lift it. Awesome skiff thats for sure, shame they died out because of the Olympic coverage. ------------- RS700 923 (Propper Singlehanded Skiff) I clocked 21knots last night :o) |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 17 Jun 05 at 5:52pm
Nope. No way. Not a hope. |
Posted By: Chunky
Date Posted: 17 Jun 05 at 6:10pm
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Why doesn't it class as a skiff, it planes upwind and downwind and when we did round the island we had 3/4 of the boat out of the water on 2 sails! Why would you say not a hope? ------------- RS700 923 (Propper Singlehanded Skiff) I clocked 21knots last night :o) |
Posted By: southcoast
Date Posted: 30 Jul 05 at 11:17am
| does anyone else think that if 12ft skiffs were more available they would become quite popular, they are lookers and seem to go very well indeed, in my opinion they would plug a whole in the market. any other opinions as i may be completely wrong, anyway just a thought. |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 30 Jul 05 at 2:03pm
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The UK has a 12ft skiff just minus 2/3 of it's rigs.... it's called a UK
Cherub. Avaliablity is an interesting word. 12ft skiffs / UK Cherubs are freely avaliable. You just need to get a boat builder to build one or build one yourself. The plans for both are freely avaliable. To build a 12ft skiff in the UK you are looking at around £17,000 perhaps more. A UK Cherub is more like £8,500 / £9,000 i.e it only has one rig. Interest in the UK Cherub is high, so yes 12ft Skiff would / will become popular. But you still need the skills to sail one. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |