Seperating an Angel RS600 Mast
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Repair & maintenance
Forum Discription: Questions & tips on the subject
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6223
Printed Date: 19 Aug 25 at 6:42am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Seperating an Angel RS600 Mast
Posted By: hollandsd
Subject: Seperating an Angel RS600 Mast
Date Posted: 10 Dec 09 at 8:57pm
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Righty guys. I have a fused 600 angel mast that i want to "unstick" i dont want to try the musto trick of tying one end to a car and another to a tree ( i dont want to damage my car or anyonelses) I have tried putting ropes through both holes and ratcheting them apart but to no avail, also tried pouring hot and then boiling water over the join and no luck. I have a spare bottom section, is dont mind wrecking the bottom section thats fused in the mast so is there any way of removing it either destroying the old bottom section or keeping it whole. I have run out of ideas. Dan ------------- Laser 184084 Tasar 3501 RS600 698 RS600 782 |
Replies:
Posted By: Contender 541
Date Posted: 11 Dec 09 at 8:00am
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Now you are going to have to trust me on this one............... Tension and Time and Coca Cola Find somewhere you can put the mast horizontal and then tension (lots of - so use a pulley mechanism) one end away from the other. Now for the trust bit. Pour a can of Coke into the join and wait. Coke is very corrosive and (should) eat the corrosion before the base metal.
I have seen this done with a vintage pillar drill that had been left out in the elements for 25 years - it took 4 weeks for the coke to do it's stuff, but......... Key thing with all seizures is once it moves a small amount it will continue to move - you need patience and lots of it ------------- When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss Crew on 505 8780 |
Posted By: tmoore
Date Posted: 11 Dec 09 at 1:00pm
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whatever you do, do NOT use WD40, it will weaken your mast, tension and time will likely give you the best results ------------- Landlocked in Africa RS300 - 410 Firefly F517 - Nutshell Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 11 Dec 09 at 6:10pm
| Assuming its one with the alloy sleeve then heat is, I believe, the wrong way to go, I think alloy expands more than carbon laminate. |
Posted By: Contender 541
Date Posted: 11 Dec 09 at 8:58pm
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And there is the problem in a nutshell - Dissimmilar materials! Carbon Vs Alloy - not a good mix. As I say in my previous post - Time and patience ------------- When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss Crew on 505 8780 |
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 16 Dec 09 at 12:05pm
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I've separated the ali mast heel from the mast by freezing the bottom section, as the ali will contract more than the carbon. We are due some cold weather soon so it might be worth giving it a try first thing in the morning after it's been frosty before it warms up again. ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: Jamesd
Date Posted: 16 Dec 09 at 2:49pm
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carbon and alloy? you are right, the alloy will expand more, under heat (plus i would recommend more heat than boiling water anyway, but that is irrelevant). Freezing it might be worth a shot The coca-cola is the best idea! or use a release agent of some time. But instead of using a tension method, try and use a torsional force, it will be faster. see if there are two holes in the mast somewhere, i.e. the shrouds or trapeze fixings, stick a long bolt through it, clamp the other end and then apply a torsional load to it. pour the release agent over it and leave it. then after a while reverse the direction of the torsional force. shouldnt take too long.thats how i would do it if it was me, but then i dont really know what it is you are dealing with hahaha. |
Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 16 Dec 09 at 3:32pm
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If its anything like the superspars 600 mast then you can't twist the lower section until they are quite well seperated. There is a quite inside the mast to stop the sections rotating in use. |
Posted By: I luv Wight
Date Posted: 16 Dec 09 at 4:08pm
Another way is to dissolve the aluminium ( using a more powerful chemical than the slightly acid in coca cola ). Warning - this can be very dangerous!!!  Use caustic soda ( drain cleaner ) crystals dissolved in water. This eats the aluminium away, and can get very hot - so be careful! There was a home-made cherub carbon mast stuck on an alloy mandrel, the caustic soda got so hot it boiled and there was a fountain of boiling soda and hydrogen gas coming out of the top of the mast. It worked though, with no damage to the carbon/epoxy. ------------- " rel="nofollow - http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk Andy P foiling Int Moth GBR3467 Freedom 21 Codling |
Posted By: RS600653
Date Posted: 16 Dec 09 at 5:14pm
iIve got a similar problem with my 600 mast so it's good to see that i'm not the only one with this problem! But I'm a bit confused by the post quoted above, surely if the ali contracts more when it's cold than carbon it will result in a tighter grip on the carbon? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 16 Dec 09 at 5:26pm
No, because these are tubes, and the alloy tube is inside the carbon one. So if you make it very cold the carbon tube might contract say to 1mm less diameter and the alloy tube say 2mm less diameter, so it gets looser. If you warm the carbon at the same time as chilling the alloy then the differential becomes even greater, because the carbon diameter increases... I'd be inclined to tie the mast between two trees and leave overnight with loads of tension on, and then first thing in the morning warm up the carbon with warm water whilst whanging on even more tension. A spanish windlass might be convenient for getting the load on... I would be very wary about too much torsion as carbon sticks aren't particularly strong in torsion. |
Posted By: hollandsd
Date Posted: 19 Dec 09 at 10:43pm
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Alright guys, i have tried everything, even resorted to tying one end to a fence post and the other to my car and still no movement. Any more suggestions? Dan ------------- Laser 184084 Tasar 3501 RS600 698 RS600 782 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 19 Dec 09 at 11:09pm
If it won't respond to overnight loads and the warm up the carbon whilst the alloy is still frozen treatment I suggest above then you are pretty much stuffed. I suppose one could could try dissolving the alloy out with hot sodium hydroxide solution but I submit this should only be done by qualified chemists... Very easy to end up with some very serious injuries up to and including losing eyes... You'd also probably lose or at least weaken any other metal parts eg rivets. If you are at destroy the bottom section stage then just saw it lengthways up to the join, and then see if you can extract the alloy from there, but frankly if its this stuck I'd leave well alone! |
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 21 Dec 09 at 2:40pm
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Is there a reason that you need to separate it apart from to reef? Bear in mind you can zip up the sail and hoist it up the full length mast, you'll obviously have a couple of feet of bare spar at the top but it will still work, and how often do you reef? ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: hollandsd
Date Posted: 21 Dec 09 at 9:22pm
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My main reason i want to seperate it, is so i can replace the old corroded bottom section with my far better condition spare, i dont want the mast to go bang on a windy day. I have kinda given up all hope of seperating it, so i may just use it as is. I want to see how it feels compared to the superspars mast. Dan ------------- Laser 184084 Tasar 3501 RS600 698 RS600 782 |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 27 Dec 09 at 6:42pm
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If its coroded then arent the carbon fibres going to be damaged as well as the aluminium anyway? So if you remove one section and use a different one it's probably just as likely to go bang. If you've got that superspars mast still then why bother changing? ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |