Will there be no end to this?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Keelboat classes
Forum Name: America's Cup
Forum Discription: Your thoughts on challenges to win the 'Auld Mug'
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082
Printed Date: 26 Jun 25 at 5:12am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Will there be no end to this?
Posted By: jeffers
Subject: Will there be no end to this?
Date Posted: 27 Oct 09 at 11:58am
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http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=149276 - The latest legal wranglings Ok I appreciate that the Americas Cup has always been about ego and finding loop holes to gain an advantage (see the 'double diffuser' in F1 this year) but this really is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Any interest I had in the Americas cup is now officially over and will remain so until we get to the 34th cup where, hopefully, we will have a spectacle to showcase sailing like we had with the 32nd cup. I do think a lot of this is sour grapes from GGYC/BMW Oracle, not that SNG/Alinghi are completely innocent by any means! ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Replies:
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 27 Oct 09 at 12:08pm
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Oh ffs. Whilst SNG's decision on the host port is
clearly a commercial action, for GGYC to try and overturn because it exposes them to 'unnecessary danger' is farcical. Actually it is fairly typical of some of our American cousins 'Gee it has sand it must be dangerous'. If it's so f'ing dangerous why the hell are so many Americans living and working there, including a considerable US military presence. Larry stop whining and go sailing!! in fact feast your eyes http://www.oracle.com/global/me/corporate/successes.html Apparently it's safe enough for him to earn millions of dollars there!! ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: Laser 173312
Date Posted: 27 Oct 09 at 1:46pm
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I think BMWO made a big mistake in bringing up security. If they'd just kept to protesting the bent rules, allowing engines, balast and including the rudder as part of the waterline length, they'd be in a much stronger position. Also they should of clarified the northern hemisphere question as soon as the judge pronounced it. Leaving it months and then protesting it once Alinghi arrived was facile. The real shame of it is there are 2 fantastic cutting edge yachts nearly ready to race and everyones got to concentrate on a New York Court room. I place the fault at the door of the challenger of record for the 31st AC accepting an entry from SNG, a club which was not deed legal at that time. Who was that now....
.. oh yes Oracle BMW racing and the GGYC.
------------- |
Posted By: GraemeB
Date Posted: 27 Oct 09 at 1:53pm
| .......who cares any more.... |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 27 Oct 09 at 3:09pm
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You'll have to excuse me for not paying much attention to this already, but
since when did they permit the use of multi hulls? Obviously the reason it's all gone pear shaped. Multihulls Always attract the bad elements  ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: laser4000
Date Posted: 27 Oct 09 at 3:40pm
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I gave up on this about 2 years ago. I might turn on the telly when the 5 minute gun goes but up until that point I really don't give a toss about a couple of gargantuan ego's having a legal fight about who's got the biggest. All I can tell is that the AC has gone from a great event that actually managed to make match racing look vaguely interesting to a total and utter farce. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 27 Oct 09 at 4:29pm
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You do have to wonder how much of this is down to the lawyers. I mean to people to whom money is (effectively) no object if you were their lawyer wouldn't you be pushing every little thing to keep your billing hours ticking over?... Or perhaps I am just far too much of a cynic..... Anyways last word from me on the farce...roll on AC 34 (as long as it brings a well run multi challenger event of course). ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: asterix
Date Posted: 27 Oct 09 at 4:33pm
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I agree the claim that RAK is too dangerous is a poor/stupid argument But neither team should have control of the rules in the way SNG does Any event of this sort should have a neutral governing body, judge and jury |
Posted By: Quagers
Date Posted: 27 Oct 09 at 4:55pm
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You have to remember though that this cup has been more true to the cups history than the last. Its always been about a s***fight between 2 massive egos with massive pots of money behind them, not the commercial regatta AC32 was both have their merits but no-one can deny that this one has created some awesome boats which we will hopefully get to see race each other sometime soon. |
Posted By: theycallmegod
Date Posted: 27 Oct 09 at 4:59pm
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Well the judge bought it- no race in RAK apparently.
------------- B14 698 Laser 135776 |
Posted By: bert
Date Posted: 27 Oct 09 at 6:16pm
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I`m with jeffers first post on this. The level of interest this contest generates is now more about the legal issues rather then the sailing,To me that is the saddest part!! ------------- Phantom 1181 AC-227 IC 304 blaze / halo 586 |
Posted By: Stuart O
Date Posted: 27 Oct 09 at 8:59pm
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The problem is obviously the Yanks have had things their own way for so long in this competition.....but now obviously the NOT in the Northern hemispere between.. part missed something in translation into French/German/Italian...The court had NO choice in this matter but to rule in GGYC favour. Its a real shem that this has come down to this ...personally I cant wait till Feb to see what will happen with these fine tuned machines. But IMHO both should be slapped with a rule 69 and hung out to dry |
Posted By: Catsrule
Date Posted: 28 Oct 09 at 4:51pm
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Alinghi were begging for another court case here, such a evident breaking of the DOG was asking for BMW to take them to court. What the cup needs is Alinghi to be kicked out as co-ordinater of the trust, it given back to say NZ (last holder of the cup) who runs the match beetween the two. Means no stupid rule changing outside jury and umpires ect..
------------- There's no such thing as bad day on the water!! |
Posted By: Juggs
Date Posted: 28 Oct 09 at 5:28pm
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I think that both clubs have brought the sport of sailing so far beyond the usual shenannigans associated with cup squabbles. But what I find most unusual is that an international company like BMW will throw the towel on their own team in motorsport but continues to be associated with a legal process that has got to reflect badly on them.
I only hope that the judge in New York has a huge attack of common sense, tells both teams to meet somewhere, Valencia, and just sail. Both Teams will be inconvenienced in having to transfer their base of operations and boats back there, and so what if it's in February/March at least there should be wind. The possibility of carnage will make great TV! |
Posted By: Stuart O
Date Posted: 28 Oct 09 at 8:06pm
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Might explain their poor performance on the F1 grid this year |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 28 Oct 09 at 9:51pm
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Could we lock Ellison and Bertarelli in a room somewhere maybe?
Note that this is as far as this plan goes, there is no step 2. Just lock them in a room together. No "letting them out when they've sorted their differences out". Better make it somewhere remote, where the eventual stench of rotting billionaire won't bother anyone. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Laser 173312
Date Posted: 29 Oct 09 at 12:31pm
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Thing with BMW is their sponsorship is tied in with them using Oracle software so they may not be able to walk away as easily as in F1 where they own the team. Also I believe the amount of money is a factor of 10 smaller for the cup. And BMW do not seem to be part of the politics, but have more to do with the design of the boat, which everyone seems to think is mighty impressive. alstorer ------------- |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 29 Oct 09 at 1:18pm
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If there's no buildings there a shipping container would do just fine
------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Catsrule
Date Posted: 30 Oct 09 at 5:30pm
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I know how to resolve all this very easily. Requirments: -2 optimists -water -2 billionaires
Let them race it out in optimists, simple. ------------- There's no such thing as bad day on the water!! |
Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 01 Nov 09 at 9:49pm
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As others have said, the thing that strikes me - as the AC clearly has little or nothing left that relates to sport, sailing, sportsmanship or whatever you may call it - it is a potential brand killer for those organisations still involved with it. But yes a few rule 69 protests do seem to be in order! |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Nov 09 at 10:47pm
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I'm enjoying the whole thing - lets face it, there is plenty of sailing elsewhere to keep us interested, so why not have a court case or 7 to laugh at, too? ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Laser 173312
Date Posted: 03 Nov 09 at 9:41am
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Rupert does have something there. Last Thursday I was logged in to another forum and there were people with their blackberrys posting on to the forum from the court. I think at one stage there where 150 people looking at the one forum. A lot more interesting than writing software.
------------- |
Posted By: Boris
Date Posted: 14 Nov 09 at 4:26pm
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The legal wrangling isn't pretty but I actually don't think it is all bad with the AC. The traditional event has never made much sense to me. It is suppose to be the pinacle of match racing and the boats, 12m or AC class, are not bad for that purpose except for one thing - they are not equal. The irony is that huge sums of money are expended in trying to make the boats unequal. Consequently in over 150 years the event has only twice produced exciting racing. This could be forgiven if the competion was an exciting design contest. While I accept that there have been some useful spin offs, the boats themselves are not particularly exciting (good match racing boats aren't) and much of the development has centered around silly rule cheats (hulas, batwings etc). In short in the past the AC has fallen between two stools being neither an exiting racing or an exciting design competition. Doubtless the multihulls will not produce a close race, but as a vitually no holds barred desgn competion I think that it is exiting and has produced two truely spectacular machines. |