Dinghy multihulls: Vampire v Invictus

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Vampire v Invictus

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Multihulls
Forum Name: Dinghy multihulls
Forum Discription: For those who prefer two (or more) hulls to one!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6065
Printed Date: 29 Jun 25 at 7:18pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: Vampire v Invictus

Posted By: lurker
Subject: Vampire v Invictus
Date Posted: 21 Oct 09 at 10:15pm

Read the test and wondered how close the Vamp might get to a C cat. I think the SCHRS is around 8 for a C, and a little over for the smaller contender. But on a windward/leeward when the breeze is not too light do reckon it would be close ? I know the 18's were reported to be a close match for earlier C's downwind in Sydney.

Replies:

Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 22 Oct 09 at 11:58am

It certainly would be interesting to compare the boats. I doubt if the the differences would be huge in performance.

Earlier this year when Invictus was being test sailed down in Cardiff Bay my father started chatting to Paul Larsen as I had previously been involved in Invictus and therefore my father thought he'd check up on what progress had been made. Anyway to cut the story short, Paul is starting to wonder whether modern rig and sail tech. is starting to catch up with solid sails to the point that in practice they are just as quick. Certainly if Invictus had a standard soft rig it wouldnt have suffered the numerous flap element failures that have hurt the development this year.

Back when I was involved with Invictus the aim was to take part in a few events such as the Grafham cat grand prix and the fast cat around the island race to gauge its pace but the boat just wasnt ready in time. Perhaps the guys will get an opportunity to get it into race trim at an event before it gets shipped to Newport for next years C-event.

Posted By: Teamvmg
Date Posted: 22 Oct 09 at 8:39pm

I wouldn't put it past Larsen, he doesn't like to keep things behind closed
doors. A good ambassador for our sport - hmmm - any places need filling
at ISAF? lets buy him a blazer!

Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Oct 09 at 10:39am

Originally posted by craiggo

Paul is starting to wonder whether modern rig and sail tech. is starting to catch up with solid sails to the point that in practice they are just as quick.

I think all we have to do is look at what happened to the Sailrocket project when they ditched the soft sail - speed doubled...

I don't know that people really appreciate what devastatingly sophisticated bits of kit the top C class are. Upwind it don't think it would even look like the same race until the C went out of its design wind conditions, and given a high wind rig even that wouldn't matter...

Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 23 Oct 09 at 11:20am

Going to be interesting to see if Cheese and Dog end up with solid sails or not. They provide massive power in the right conditions, but can stuggle when it gets too windy....

-------------
Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..

Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 23 Oct 09 at 12:28pm

Jim, sailrocket was a different kettle of fish really, as the planform to an extent was already defined and ended up being fairly low aspect ratio to ensure lots of low down drive to balance all the forces out.

If you go to a high aspect rig a-la A-class with high purchase mainsheets you can keep the leech tension and support the relatively short chord with decent battens. I think Paul was considering this as an option, but unlikely in the short-term as the guys will develop what they have for next years Newport C-class showdown.

In terms of pace, C-class are incredibly quick, having regularly sailed against the likes of Nigel Lovett in his A-class I know how quick the A is upwind but the C is much quicker. Even Invictus in its semi-broken state has proven quicker than Pauls A down at Weymouth, but then its a big boat, 25ft long and monster beam with an all up weight not to much different to an F18. When I was out at Bristol YC for the 2004 C-class event it was simply awesome to see the speeds that Cogito can sail at in 5-10kts TWS.

Posted By: lurker
Date Posted: 23 Oct 09 at 11:04pm

I recall Ben Hall's scaled down C rig at the A champs a year or so ago. Very neat and on the pace - but didn't blow everyone else away.

Posted By: TornadoSail2012
Date Posted: 28 Nov 09 at 2:26am

Originally posted by lurker

I recall Ben Hall's scaled down C rig at the A champs a year or so ago. Very neat and on the pace - but didn't blow everyone else away.

Ben's rig was spectacular off the wind. He lost most of what he gained on the windward legs. The issue was simple, he did not have development time with the wing. Launched in September, raced in November. I believe that if he had 10-12 months to dial it in and modify it, you would have seen a top 2-3 finish. Not sure anyone was beating Glenn or Lars that regatta.