How important is height?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6044
Printed Date: 20 Jan 26 at 10:37am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: How important is height?
Posted By: narc
Subject: How important is height?
Date Posted: 14 Oct 09 at 9:26pm
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In righting moment terms, height is just as important as weight so from a physics point of view the ideal is to be very tall and thin.
However, there is much discussion about weight ranges for boats but no mention of height at all. Some lard is going to help out of tacks and gybes in a trapeze boat where a lightweight would be in trouble if they didn't hit the wire quickly but for a good sailor it wouldn't be any slower. Is the difference seen in practice? |
Replies:
Posted By: asterix
Date Posted: 14 Oct 09 at 10:50pm
I feel another poll coming on...
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Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 14 Oct 09 at 11:39pm
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The 700 equalises for height as well as weight, so yes it is considered and yes it is important! ------------- |
Posted By: tickler
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 8:47am
| It would be better to be very tall, but with a heavy head. |
Posted By: Laser 173312
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 8:53am
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I think height is important in a lot of sports, however unlike weight it's not something you can control. Once your an adult you are stuck with what you've got. However that does beg the question, can you make yourself grow taller by eating the correct food as a child? ------------- |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 9:11am
I'm intrigued, how does that work then? Are the rack heights adjustable then? Yes height does matter, well it certainly does racing sailboards, so I guess it must be the same in dinghies for similar reasons. Tall thin = rig more upright, so in all the planing mid windspeeds advantageous, the only time I found short me could deal with tall them was when it was survival windy and everyone overpowered. So I suspect that might be the case in boats where speed and agility (something short folk are better and quicker at) are important. Edit in case anyone was wondering I'm 5'-6", least I was, knowing my luck I've probably shrunk by now and I'm also battling to bring the 70 kgs I've just hit, back to the 65-7kg range, never have I been so heavy at the end of the summer. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: hum3
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 9:17am
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If it's the same as the 800 system, the racks are adjusted depending upon righting moment, which therefore includes height. A plank of known length is placed on scales, and you lie down on that, which gives the measure. The amount of lead you carry is dependent upon the all up weight. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 9:21am
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Of course height matters but you can't alter it very easily. However, note that variances in height are tiny compared to body weight. There are many people who weigh 50% more than me but not many that are 50% taller.
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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 9:23am
I'm 5' 3" and a half. Yes height is important! 
------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 9:24am
No but I could be 50% smaller! ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: Jamesd
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 9:30am
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you are right in thinking that height matters. especially in dinghys, ot so much in keelboats that ban hiking. being 6'4" myself im quite lucky that im tall. however it does have drawbacks that are arent sailing related, such as banging ur head on things. the biggest sailing disadvantage is that even though you can provide more moment, you have to be that much stronger to hold ur body out there. my other problem is that im currently 89 kilos and realistically i cant get my weight much lower. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 9:43am
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Have you noticed we are using kilos for weight but imperial measures for height? At 5'5", and most of what is missing is from the legs, I find that hiking out in some boats is really hard as the ergonomics are all wrong. Laser decks especially are just too wide for comfort. This, to me, makes more difference than actual righting moment, which is going to be more related to how fit you are, and therefore how much effort you can put into sitting out by the end of a race. Trapeze boats are a different matter, though, where another 8 or 10" in height is a fairly large % gain in righting moment for a given weight, so a 6'3" 75 kg crew is going to have more righting moment than I am. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 12:19pm
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I am 5'6" and I can assure you straight leg hiking is much more comfortable from a wider deck (liker a Laser) than from a narrower deck as your weight is spread over a large area (good battens in the hikers also helps). Hiking is never going to be "comfortable" but the fitter you are the easier it will be!
------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: Paul B
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 1:35pm
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Remember that it's not strictly "height" that is the issue, it's where your centre of gravity is. So, all things being equal, which they probably aren't, somebody who is 4 inches taller is likely to have 2" higher CofG. |
Posted By: ChrisJ
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 1:40pm
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RE:>> At 5'5", and most of what is missing is from the legs, I find that hiking out in some boats is really hard as the ergonomics are all wrong. Laser decks especially are just too wide for comfort. At 5'18", I find Laser's are scarey things: with long legs you can get a long way out, and once out there it is VERY hard to get back in. Therefore, the tendancy is to sit up and not sit out. With a wider, more comfortable boat (e.g. RS400), with the toestraps set as far inboard as possible, things are a lot easier.
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Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 2:37pm
Assuming we are talking adult sailors here ... That would be sub 3ft ... even Grumpfs isn't that stunted ... ------------- |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 2:39pm
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Also note that woment typically have a lower CoG than men; Jordan excepted ... ------------- |
Posted By: Dan Vincent
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 2:40pm
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The importance of height depends on the width of the boat. The righting moment due to the crew is measured from the centreline of the boat (if upright to the centre of gravity of the crew. Therefore in a narrow boat such as a Fireball the crew's height is more significant than in a wider boat (such as Musto, 18 footer or Int Canoe).
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Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 5:36pm
true, true, although the IC makes it a lot easier for the stumpier to get their whole weight a lot further out, the limiting factor could well be how easy it is to move around the boat (without crashing into stuff and making it go slower) - e.g. an FD or 505 provides plenty of room for the taller crew, as do cats, but you wouldn't want to be too tall in some others.... ------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: zailor
Date Posted: 15 Oct 09 at 5:54pm
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Well with all this talk of tall being best its making short arses like me feel bad. I'll go back to my low boom Europe, Short isnt all bad ------------- |
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 16 Oct 09 at 3:02pm
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From my perspective - 1m 94 and 125kg the main problem is that 99% of current racing boats are designed for lightweights ( anyone sub 100kg is a loightweight as far as I am concerned. Boats that could talke the weight are spoilt by unrealistic weight lilts (SB3 for instance). So bring back the non-trapeze 14, the Tempest and such-like reasonable boats. 505 looks good. Gordon ------------- Gordon |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 16 Oct 09 at 5:37pm
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Gordon, I would have though there would be a queue of people looking for keelboat crews of those proportions ... ------------- |
Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 16 Oct 09 at 5:43pm
As most classes ban water jackets .... shouldn't artificial breasts also be illegal? If not, maybe ought to get a pair ------------- Javelin 558 Contender 2574 |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 16 Oct 09 at 7:02pm
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It's not class rules that ban weight jackets, it's the RRS. ------------- -_ Al |
Posted By: Dougal
Date Posted: 16 Oct 09 at 7:41pm
I've just pointed out to my wife that she has a low centre of gravity compared to Jordan. I'm not sure she took the comment in the spirit it was intended. |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 16 Oct 09 at 11:14pm
| I've mentioned this before. In sailing it pays to be light rather than heavy. I sail a boat with weight equalisation but at 88kg I'm almost off the scale. My friends who campaign a 49er are probably 160kg between them and are considered the heaviest in the fleet. Other friends of mine have a 59er - supposedly good for heavy weights - but now that the class has started using a trapeze they are at a disadvantage. And yet at 88kg I don't think I'm particularly heavy - there are many like me. |
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 17 Oct 09 at 8:57am
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Redback - if I may modify your remarks - In sailing, at present, it pays to be light. As hulls and rigs have developed to cater for lighter crew weights, the average size of the population in developed countries has been increasing (and I am talking about fit people not the legion of the affluent malnourished who form the legions of the obese). The sport of sailing, and dinghy sailing in particular, is increasingly a sport for light and middleweight participant. There used to be quite a strong link between rugby and sailing (as the seasons did not clash)... however good ruby players (with the exception of some scrum halves would now all be considered as heavyweights, and most forwards would be too heavy for dinghy sailing. Gordon ------------- Gordon |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 17 Oct 09 at 9:16am
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So what do you think is the average weight of a fit 35 year old male is? ------------- |
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 17 Oct 09 at 9:23am
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my concern is more what is the average weight of the heaviest decile of the population, and even that of the second decile. By aaverage do you mean the mean of the median. Might well be a considerable difference. Gordon ------------- Gordon |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 22 Oct 09 at 8:48am
Just picked up on this one! If the boat is wide enough and the toestraps are inboard enough you are not hiking... you are sitting on the side (which is much easier!) In the upper wind range the harder you hike the better. This is always going to be uncomfortable as it is pyhsically demanding but the harder you hike the faster you are likely to go and the fitter you are the easier you will find it to hike... ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 22 Oct 09 at 11:13am
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The trouble with words like tall, short light and heavy are that they rely on some sort of perspective. At 5'5" and 11 stone, I see people of 5'10" and 13 stone as tall and heavy. Someone 6'3" and 15 stone will see them as short and light. Therefore, I see many boats as being designed as needing too much weight, whereas Gordon sees them all as too small. I faind I'm blown away by heavier people upwind in a breeze quite often, so weight isn't always bad... As far as average heights and weights of 35 year olds go, it is really the mode that is wanted, isn't it? I'd take a guess at Laser sized... ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 22 Oct 09 at 12:44pm
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Thde following link gives statistical details for boys p to 20. In which I learn that well over 95% of the male US population are shorter than me! Not sure how much weight increase occurs after 20. As usual with thi kind of stat I find the eight for height some what unrealistic. The tall guys would be somewhat spindly. Peter Crouch skinny rakes rather than second row forwards! http://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/Cj41cs021b w.pdf Gordon ------------- Gordon |