who’s at faul
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5994
Printed Date: 28 Jun 25 at 8:07am
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Topic: who’s at faul
Posted By: jsaylor
Subject: who’s at faul
Date Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 8:20am
Boats A B C on port tack before start. A forward to leeward B just aft of A to weather, C aft of B to weather, C can't see A, view blocked by B.
A tacks to starboard and falls off, B follows A, C preps for a lee bow tack under B. Suddenly A falls off and comes into C's view ahead of A, causing B to fall off. C reacts by throwing helm over and spins to starboard tack. A hits C with her bow just ahead of C's mast on her starboard side. Should C have chosen to fall off instead, she would have hit B just aft of mid ships and major damage would have resulted. C had no way of avoiding contact with A.
Who's at fault, What rules apply?
Thanks!
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J Saylor
Kauai, HI
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Replies:
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 12:21pm
I go through this stage by stage - there will be a lot of IFs whichyou can reply to later.
Initially A has right of way on B and C. B has right of way on C and must keep clear of C. C must keep clear of A and B (rule 11 or 12 depending on whether ROW boat is clear ahead or overlapped to leeward). When both A and B change course they must give the keep clear boats room to do so.
When A passes through head to wind she loses her right of way and must keep clear of both B and C (rule 13). IF either B or C have to take avoiding action whilst A is subject to rule 13, then A has broken rule 13.
When A reaches a close-hauled course she becomes right of way boat as she is on starboard (rule 10). However, by her own actions, A has acquired right of way and must, initially, give both B and C room to keep clear (rule 15). Neither B and C have any obligation to anticipate that A will become ROW boat. They should not have to take avoiding action until A is on a closehauled course. IF they have to do so A has broken rule 13. IF B and C react as soon as A reaches a closehauled course and are given room to make a seamanlike manoeuvre (NB a crash tack is not a seamanlike manoeuvre!) then they have met their obligations under rule 10 and A has given room under rule 15.
Similarily B must keep clear of C when she passes head to wind until she is on a close hauled course, and must then give room to keep clear.
C then finds herself on port with two boats on starboard. C must keep clear of both B and C (rule 10). When either A and B change couse they must give room to C to keep clear (rule 16.1). A is overlapped to windward and must keep clear of B.
IF by "falling off" you imply that A changed course and as a result B (having reached a close hauled course) was required to alter course then A is not keeping clear and has broken rule 11. A should take a penalty.
IF before A changed course C was keeping clear of both A and B (and IF she had room to complete a tack without breaking rule 13 she was keepng clear) and IF following A's change of course she was no longer keeping clear, and could only attempt to keep clear by an unseamanlike manoeuvre (a crash tack) then A's changing course broke rule 16.1 (and possibly rukle 16.2 if C would have passed astern of A) and A should take a penalty.
IF B changed course to avoid A who was breaking a rule, and as a result did not give C room to keep clear, then B broke rule 15 but should be exonerated (rule 64.1c). However, to ensure this exoneration she should protest A.
C made contact with A when A was right of way boat. C broke rule 13. However, this was as a result of A breaking rule 15 and C should be exonerated (rule 64.1C). C took avoiding action as soon as it became clear that A was not giving room. C did not break rule 14 "avoiding contact".
IF A took no action to avoid or minimise contact and IF there was damage or injury to either boat (a chip in the gelcoat is damage!) then it may be considered that A also broke rule 14. IF the damage was serious (requiring repair before sailing another race) or someone was injured then a two turn pealty is not an appropriate penalty and A should retire.
This is quite a complicated answer, but is typical of many situations in fleet and team racing. Rights and obligations of boats do change rapidly,and competitors would do well to attempt to be aware of these changes as they occur. Can I reccomend a day's umpiring for a team racing event - the best way to sharpen up ones rules knowledge.
Gordon
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Gordon
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Posted By: jsaylor
Date Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 6:55pm
Gordon,
Thanks! It is a bit complicated. My concern is if our local protest committee has a clear enough understanding of the rules to come to the correct conclusion.
Also, there was significant damage to both boats.
Aloha
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J Saylor
Kauai, HI
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Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 10:09pm
has the protest been heard yet? I am presuming you were in boat C
If not, you can always run through the argumnts when it is your turn to talk. Ask questions in an appropriate form, using thr terms from the rules. Make sure you clearly establish that A did not keep clear of B , or that she did not give room to keep clear.
Then when it is your turn to sum up you an present the situation showing whch rules appl and who offended.
Not easy, but convincing.
Gordon
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Gordon
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Posted By: jsaylor
Date Posted: 04 Oct 09 at 12:10am
Gordon,
Thanks!
We were in C an Olson 30, A a similar one off and B a C&C 44.
No hearing yet. I know we were not at fault, though A stated after the race that they did not fall off... B and her crew is clear that A did in fact fall off. I'm pretty clear, it's just convincing the committee.
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J Saylor
Kauai, HI
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Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 04 Oct 09 at 6:08pm
One thought, a boat may "fall off", slip to leeward, without changing course. If this happens then a ROW boat is not subject to rule 15. She, as windward boat, is still reuired to keep clear of B to leeward.
Did A change course, or just loose a yard or two to leeward?
If you an down load TSS (free for 30 days) it might be worth giving us a diagram - which you an present to the protest committee after improvement.
Gordon
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Gordon
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Posted By: jsaylor
Date Posted: 04 Oct 09 at 7:52pm
A clearly altered coarse to leeward. A had one of their crew driving that day and he was not too experienced. I believe he over-tacked, found his transom too close to B and could not harden up. The clew of his mainsail actually made contact with B's bow pulpit at which point he fell off even more.
What is TSS and were can I find it?
Thanks
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J Saylor
Kauai, HI
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Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 04 Oct 09 at 8:42pm
TSS (Tactical Sailing Situations) is a useful programme for drawing diagrams for protest and rules diagrams. Used by most International Judges, and by ISAF for the Case Book. You can download it easily off the web.
Essential for all rules nerds.
Gordon
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Gordon
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