Choosing a club
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5131
Printed Date: 14 Jul 25 at 7:45pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Choosing a club
Posted By: winging it
Subject: Choosing a club
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 11:52am
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Having just uprooted ourselves from dangerously close to Dunstable to nicely near to Cambridge, we're now having to choose a new home for the fleet. For the contender the choice seems obvious: it has to be Grafham; a decent stretch of open water and the possibility of training as much as I want thanks to full time safety cover. But what about the other boats? At £122 per boat, Grafham is out of the question, so where should they go? What then, are your priorities in choosing your sailing club? Friendly people. good open water, the type of boats sailed, competitive racing? I'm not asking for suggestions for clubs - I pretty much have that sorted, I just wondered what factors influence choice on such things -  ------------- the same, but different... |
Replies:
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 12:37pm
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Sailing area first Friendly people second Classes/Racing third I thought friendly people would be first on the list for me, but on reflection I think the sailing area is more important as even the nicest friendliest bunch aren't going to make a tree-surrounded windless pond very satisfying... unless of course your primary 'goal' is social rather than sailing. Types of boats and competitiveness of racing are only considerations for me if you're happy with who you're sailing against, and where you're sailing.. but there's bound to be some dissagreement here shortly...... ------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 12:40pm
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Friendly people and a good stretch of water. If I were to choose a club in West London, it would have to be either BA Silverwings or Island Barn. One has good friendly scene, the other good open stretch of water but tricky launching/recovery. this is based on experiences from the Laser Circuit events I did. I chose the club I am at based on the fact you can sail at all hights of tide and the friendly scene it greated me with when I first went there. ------------- |
Posted By: Chew my RS
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 12:47pm
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I suspect most people just pick their nearest bit of decent water. "Friendliness of members" is an ever changing thing, difficult to quantify (especially after one visit), and unlikely to be vastly different from one place to the next if you sample enough people. ------------- http://www.sailns14.org - http://www.sailns14.org - The ultimate family raceboat now available in the UK |
Posted By: Fans1024
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 12:58pm
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Another one to throw into the ring. Access. If I did it pre mile, my sailing club is quite a bit further than some others in the area, but I do live in London. I can get down there for Wednesday night sailing, whilst the closer ones I couldn't, oh and I'm not taking my sailing kit on the tube, as I would probably be murdered, nor I am cycling with it, as work is about 15 miles away and cycling in London is scary. |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 1:04pm
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went home on the tube once, in summer, still with hikers on and at least half a dozen friendly folks asked me what the heck I was wearing, several thought they were a new type of "cycling shorts" for deviants!
------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: Captain Morgan
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 1:09pm
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Most importantly - How frequently can I get out on the water? (Without having to travel miles to get there.) All year round racing/sailing/facilities would be my preference, provided that the club in question was receptive to whatever class I wanted to sail. |
Posted By: Graham T
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 1:15pm
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Access to the water would be my priority too. One of the
prime reasons for choosing my club over more local ones was unrestricted sailing times. Friendly people and a fantastic stretch of water help a lot too.... If you are after very competitive racing then you are more likely to find that by travelling the open circuits anyway. ------------- Osprey 55 "Tebutinnang" Osprey 1245 "Two Bob Bit" Miracle 1358 "Thumper" |
Posted By: JimiQuik
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 1:17pm
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From my experience all sailing clubs seem to be friendly so I wouldn't worry about that at all. I have always felt welcome at other sailing clubs. The two most important things for me would have to be sailing area and a decent fleet of something because I would rather not race handicap. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 1:55pm
| All the factors first listed in balance. No club will ever be right for everything, so just take your compromises... |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 3:30pm
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Hi Nessa, You are pretty close to Hunts being near Cambridge. I pay £140 a year for family membership plus 1 boat. The water is pretty small though (although Phantoms are definitely the boat to have). There is also a guy looking for a Contender so you might want to come and check us out. Failing that you have Broxbourne. There is a sailing club on the Cam but they do not allow trapeze boats. As for factors in choosing a club, suitability to the boat you race and friendliness have to be at the top of the list. Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 4:00pm
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Thanks for that Paul. What is the policy on sailing during the week? Is there a 2 boat rule, or can you only sail when there is safety cover? By the way, there is a contender for sale at Paxton Lakes, the other club I am considering. Certainly some company for ye olde phantome would be good! Interestingly, hardly any one has mentioned the cost factor. I also wondered what people thought about joining fees. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 4:59pm
| I would love to join Draycote, but the membership is a little to much for me as i don't have the heart to leave the club i have been a member at all my life. If i were looking for anew club though i would want one that is family friendly (for my daughter and wife) has a good cheap bar and galley and sailing area. Draycote i think has got it right IMO, when we went up there for some training a few times with the 14, everyone was really friendly (part from fireball fleet, but we did piss them off, so i cant blame them for that) Bacon butty was good value and the bar was awesome. The only thing that stopped me and Charlie joining was the cost in fuel and membership and the lack of Asymmetric racing. |
Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 5:23pm
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Grafham IS the bets bit of water around and has rescue cover all week.
------------- Wanna learn to Ski - PM me.. |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 5:29pm
Grafham is an awesome place to sail. However id upgrade my wetsuits if i were you !
------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: Mikey 14778
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 5:51pm
unfriendly and I'll give 'em a slap. We don't do unfriendly here, particularly not the Fireballs, we need all the friends we can get. Also we'll be putting on asymmetric racing on Saturday afternoons starting later this month, so maybe you'll run out of reasons not to sail here 
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Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 7:39pm
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I dont know who it was, and to be honest, it was quite funny and didn't bother us in the slightest. The asymmetric racing on saturdays as suggested to us at the tme but saturday is no good to me as this is the "DIY/family day" and if its not imy wife is working so i have to look after my daughter. All this aside it still doesnt alter the ammount it cost to join and keep your boat at draycote, which unfortunately i cant afford. Great club though. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 7:44pm
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I certainly put people first. When we moved to near Swindon, we joined one club for a couple of years, but never really got to know too many of the members. We then found that we were sailing a boat with no one close in handicap terms, so had the choice of changing boats or clubs. We chose to change clubs, and had made more friends in a week at the new club than in 2 years at the old. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 9:17pm
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In the Cambridge area you really only have the 2 clubs mentioned. Grafham (well it's my club) is great. Lovely water and we are friendly if you come and say hello,then Hunts. I've been there a few times though never sailed. It's a smallish piece of water, but they run good racing and seem very friendly. ------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 9:28pm
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I'd go for sailing area first. The other factors pale into insignificance alongside it for me. I may have been uncannily lucky, but I've never been at a club where people haven't been great, in the main; dinghy sailors are a friendly bunch . At the very big clubs it's maybe been more difficult to meet them as they're often scattered around a huge boat-park full of unused dinghies. I bizarrely prefer handicap racing to class racing, so classes sailed at a club would never be significant, unless there was no decent h'cap fleet. Worst club was a concrete bowl reservoir (no names!); I'd never go back there, even for an open, despite the very friendly people, the sailing was just so unappealing. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: Mikey 14778
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 11:09pm
the windy days and an RS300 for the less windy days, and (up until a few days ago) an occasional 18' skiff when somebody else rigged it for me. I think I may sail at the same place as you, but I'm very shy and retiring and you probably won't have noticed me 
PS, Back on topic, size of the water is most important, followed by what classes sail there in decent numbers. Nobody wants to sail round by themselves. The people at whichever club you choose will be generally the same as people everywhere else, ie mostly very nice. Why is my post all squashedo up like this ? |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 05 Feb 09 at 11:22pm
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[/QUOTE] As you post more, you get more space... ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: dave.blakesley
Date Posted: 06 Feb 09 at 8:20am
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Why is my post all squashed up oke this ?
^^ Problem with safari, i get the same problem! ------------- |
Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 06 Feb 09 at 9:00am
Are you a maccy? Oh and welcome you're in the minority here. There's a little arrow bottom right hand corner, click and drag it to the right especially if you are posting links or images, the Emo's that run this site for their Grandparents haven't been given permission to use modern forum software so we have to put up with its little inadequacies.. ------------- https://www.ease-distribution.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ease-distribution.com/ |
Posted By: Mikey 14778
Date Posted: 06 Feb 09 at 9:48am
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Cheers guys. Not a Maccy BTW, using Chrome, probably blame that.
Party on dudes |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 06 Feb 09 at 12:45pm
The policy is that you can sail any time you like but there is only rescue cover on Sundays (every Sunday there is racing), Saturdays in the summer and Wednesday evenings in the summer. The lake is pretty small so unless it is howling you can always swim to the nearest shore and walk round. I sailed at Paxton many years ago and found it pretty friendly but very overshadowed by the trees. There is sailing on at Hunts every Sunday except the last 2 in February when we have work parties (although unlikely to be sailing this weekend I think....). Pop up and see us. The Phantom fleet is pretty strong and we have a split PY for handicap racing (your boat would be off the standard PY of 1043 with a 'new' boat going off 1030). ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 08 Feb 09 at 10:36pm
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Interesting topic. The bigger clubs are surely those that are most likely to survive and prosper in future, as they tend to have better ponds, facilities, paid staff etc and hence more of a "turn up, sail, go home" sort of vibe which is in keeping with the modern vibe. Yet the small club thing can be great too, yes you may get dragged into doing a few duties each season, but when it works it can be like racing with your mates every week. You pays your money and takes your choice etc. I think that for those folk sailing slow stuff (ie most of us) the size of the pond isn't too crucial assuming its not a complete puddle! Oh, and to those who say that all clubs are friendly - IMHO some are, some aren't, so thats a factor too. |
Posted By: andymck
Date Posted: 08 Feb 09 at 11:47pm
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Having been a member at Grafham and Hunts, it depends what you are
looking for. As soon as I was not sailing assymetrics, I found hunts much more friendly, Les being one of the exceptions at Grafham. Have now moved to Oxford, and am having same concerns about joining at Farmoor. Am currently driving to Burghfield, as its a really friendly club, but since I can almost see Farmoor from my bedroom window, but everyone I chat to says they are not the friendliest of clubs. Am currently put off because they want a full year boat parking free for a month and a half before next years subs are due. Andy ------------- Andy Mck |
Posted By: Adam MR 1137
Date Posted: 09 Feb 09 at 10:53am
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Personally from a large club or small club point of view. I would always pick the small, family orientated and volunteer run club. As I prefer the feeling of belonging to a club, rather than paying for a facility, and the sense of achievemnt you get from the club running properly, after the hard work you and your many club friends have to put in to keep it going. The environment promoted by these clubs is one I would much rather devote my sundays too. I think those who have a turn up, sail and go away attitude are somewhat a detriment to the sport. I accpet that not all people can put in large amounts of effort, but everybody can and should pitch in! This would be the most important factor to me when choosing a club, as I sail on a very restricted piece of water at the moment, everywhere feels quite large!! Subs would also make a huge impact on my decision, given that currently I have very little spare cash, and in general smaller member and volunteer maintained clubs have much smaller fees! ------------- Merlin rocket 1137 OK 2049 Can be seen at http://www.wellandyachtclub.co.uk/ - WYC |
Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 09 Feb 09 at 1:58pm
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Joining fees are NOT necessary but are certainly evil, they can put people off joining certain clubs and can put newcomers to the sport off too. Over the years I have had to relocate several times, for work reasons, and this has meant I have been a member of 8 different clubs, from memory all bar one charged a joining fee, usually this at least doubled year one subs. I was always given the reason for its existance being the work done by the current and former members to bring the club up to the standard it was; total rubbish in my opinion, who is to say these new members aren't going to contribute more than the current membership to the running, promotion and development of the club anyway. Over the years I have read articles and letters in most of the yachting press about joining fees, all stating how unjustified they are, I have yet to hear one even mildly interesting reason for why they exist.
When choosing a club there will inevitably be pluses and minuses, and it will always be a compromise... I chose my current club due to the fact that I could join a fleet of Phantoms there. There were few other considerations, other than it was a reasonable distance to travel. There is no doubt each club has its own unique character, and there is in my experience a distinct difference between the members run club and those with full time staff, I'm not saying either is better, just different, and as we all have a different set of criteria it is very much each to their own; but I would always visit a club at least once before joining and spend some time there, always providing you can get past the locked gates you will find at some clubs (locked as in locked even when the club is open).
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Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 09 Feb 09 at 2:04pm
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At my local Golf Club, Mid Herts, there is a huge joining fee, but in return you take an equity share in the club. Is it the same with sailing clubs?
------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 09 Feb 09 at 3:04pm
Often a topic of debate at Club AGM's! Those in favour of joining fees are often those folk who, like me, literally built their club a generation back so don't underestimate how wound up some of the older members can get on this subject. But that was then and this is now, times are different and peoples expectation of what they're going to get from a club have changed. A big joining fee (and that good old locked gate) basically tells the world that newcomers are tolerated at best. Not a good idea!! A small joining fee can be quite handy though, as it's a little incentive for the existing member to join again at subs renewal time.. But I'm from the small club/volunteer tradition, I guess the bigger clubs may take a more commercial view, eg what the market will accept etc. |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 09 Feb 09 at 4:29pm
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Firstly, Andy, I have just come from Farmoor and always found them to be very friendly, though the boat parking is at a premium, which would be why they want to charge. I would simply wait and join in March, or take out winter membership. Between us she and I have four boats, so I'll be joining Grafham for the contender, because I need regular practice and lots of water to fall into, and almost certainly Hunts for the rest of the fleet, because I've had some very positive emails from the commodore and there's a good chance of doing some voluntary coaching/instructing, which is actually pretty important to me. They also have a phantom fleet, with an altered handicap to suit my aged craft. Fees are reasonable and boat fees are ok ish, half the price of boat storage at Grafham. I will, by the way, be taking out my Grafham membership at the dinghy show because they have a special deal where if you do so they waive the fairly hefty £80 joining fee.  ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 09 Feb 09 at 5:33pm
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Give me a shout then, I'll be on the stand from 10am till 11-30 (then to the Bar!) Oh, and I had a contender for a few years too, and can put you in touch with a fellow owner when you join. ------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 09 Feb 09 at 5:47pm
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I look forward to seeing you at Hunts then Nessa, look out for the tall bloke in the turqoise 8.1 and come and say hello. Oh and I second that for Les, he came over and said hello when i did the GGP a couple of years ago. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: PlankyPlank
Date Posted: 09 Feb 09 at 6:52pm
The very fact that the club/water board(?) rules require there to be safety cover whenever there is someone on the water would put me off right from the start. I've never sailed on a lake like this so I don't really know how it works, but somehow the idea sterilises the sport a bit. Some of the best sailing I've had has been mid week on a day off when there was nobody else on the lake. I'm lucky on Ullswater where there are no such rules and you can sail whenever you like on a (very) big stretch of water. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 09 Feb 09 at 6:58pm
Unfortunately this will be the case on any reservoir... Its only at places like Ullswater where there's a right of public access that you'd be able to sail on your own. There aren't many lakes like that in Southern England... |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 09 Feb 09 at 9:30pm
Surely this is a good thing? One of the main reasons I have chosen Grafham is that I can sail there almost any time I like and still know that should I fall over one time too many someone will notice. It's not as if the safety cover is going to be shadowing my every move, and I think Grafham is easily big enough for you to get a sense of isolation if you want to, so surely this option offers the best of all worlds? I have sailed at clubs where you could sail without cover, and indeed did so, especially on Wimbleball in the middle of lovely Exmoor, so I do get you're coming from, but I don't see the harm in having safety cover - it's not as if it restricts you in anyway. Thanks to Paul and Les - look forward to meeting you soon! ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 09 Feb 09 at 9:50pm
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Have you noticed that everyone who has contributed to this thread seems to combine sailing ( a cheap and easy accessible sport) with the closely related, but by no means identical pastime (ruiniously expensive) of owning a boat. Which club should a crew join? I would say firstly - the one with a big one design fleet, as that is the best way to learn and develop. Doesn't really matter which class as long as you are more or less the right size. Secondly, a club that turns out quality race officials, because that is a guarantee of good, fair, intelligently run racing. Thirdly, a club that has developed those forms of our sport that do not rely on owning a boat - team racing, match racing. In some areas clubs are pricing themselves out of the market - perhaps more a problem here in Ireland than the UK. In which case a competent crew can simply join his MNA as a direct member , and contribute in that way to the development of the sport. Finally - as a race official I rarely enter a club without being a member - all good SIs should grant temporary memebershiąp to competitors and race official at events - if only to satisfy the requiements of the bar licence! Clubs should not charge joining fees - bit reduce subscriptions after a certain number of years membership. Gordon ------------- Gordon |
Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 09 Feb 09 at 10:16pm
Not necessarily. Many of the clubs in my region (east midlands) have annual subs around £200/year. I raced an old £800 Laser last year which won me the odd race at club level, and I guess if I wanted to sell it I'd make most if not all my money back. I get annoyed at the blanket argument that "sailing is expensive", yes it can be but with a bit of thought dinghy racing can be cheap as chips. |
Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 10 Feb 09 at 12:11am
When it warms up, and people stop wanting Ski lessons, I'll be there too! ------------- Wanna learn to Ski - PM me.. |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 13 Feb 09 at 4:10pm
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It does seem that at this time of year many clubs offer cheap winter membership, with either free or reduced boat storage. They also usually waive the entry fee - I know Farmoor does this, as do Datchet and Grafham. A good way in at this time of year, especially for the bigger clubs with higher entry fees. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: GregKI
Date Posted: 13 Feb 09 at 9:53pm
Sorry Andy, I do not know where you got your information from or who you have been talking but that is not the Oxford Sailing Club that I know and have been a member of for the last six years. Come along on Saturday or Sunday and speak to me about the club facilites there are. Also you can see the range of craft that sail there. Currently membership is available for Frostbite that lasts until 31st March for with NO joining fee and NO boat park fee  . If you became a Frostbit(e) member then there would not be a joining fee for next year either - quids in!I can't say why people don't find OSC friendly but I have been to Burghfield, Dorchester and Abbey SCs - I guess it's horses for courses .................. Cheers - Greg ps - if you do pop along on I'll get you a cup of coffee and a bacon roll and you could sail as my guest for free ............... choice is yours |
Posted By: GregKI
Date Posted: 13 Feb 09 at 9:59pm
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Posted By: dontdocalm!
Date Posted: 15 Feb 09 at 8:35am
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Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 15 Feb 09 at 10:23am
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I think the thing is that like all things, whether or not you get on at a club is totally dependent on personal tastes. If you're not too competitive you won't like a club where racing is the be-all and end-all. Likewise if you're young and outgoing you won't get on at a morris traveller type club (presumbaly, according to grumpf, populated by solo, ent and gp sailors) What I have found just lately is that there are far more many clubs to choose from than you might first think. If it weren't for Jeffers I would not have found Hunts, if I hadn't bought a trolley off ebay I would not have found Paxton Lakes. I have even also found a club on the Cam, also very close to here. So I might just have joined Grafham and struggled to find spaces for the rest of the fleet. Above all though I think you just can't judge by appearances or hearsay. You have to go along and see for yourself, meet some people, look at the facilities, then go to another club and compare. I've done this this week with looking for a gym and found the best one for my needs. A sailing club should be the same. An offer of a coffee and a bacon butty seems like a great starting point! ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 15 Feb 09 at 11:31am
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No excuse for not knowing all your local clubs nowadays, surely? http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/community/generic_map.asp - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/community/generic_map.asp or http://www.rya.org.uk/getonthewater/Pages/FindAFacility.aspx?facility=Club - http://www.rya.org.uk/getonthewater/Pages/FindAFacility.aspx ?facility=Club ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 15 Feb 09 at 12:21pm
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No, absolutely right, but I think I was guilty of tunnel vision because I already knew Grafham, plus I was a bit preoccupied by the house move. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 15 Feb 09 at 12:24pm
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Wasn't 'judging', just an excuse to advertise those two excellent facilities. What am I doing sitting here on a Sunday? Roll on the season - next week for Wilsonian Warm-Up Series, actually - just got to hang in there another week... ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 15 Feb 09 at 12:47pm
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no worries.....and I am also missing the water. The boat is in the front garden right now and is the weather stays decent ie no more snow I will be hoping to get to Grafham for a blast!
------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 15 Feb 09 at 12:53pm
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I don't want to enter a debate on joining fees but as a matter of fact, Hayling does not currently have a waiting list for membership.
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