High points experience
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Race Management
Forum Discription: For race officers and competiors to discuss the topic
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4742
Printed Date: 29 Jun 25 at 2:18pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: High points experience
Posted By: pondscum
Subject: High points experience
Date Posted: 07 Oct 08 at 8:49pm
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At my club (Frensham), there is some discussion about using the high point scoring for our season series (21 races in the summer). A Perceived advantages - probably more realistic positions for people who don't quite sail the 50% of races. Disadvantages - in light winds with few starters, may encourage more people not to sail (or same at other end of wind range). Does anyone have experience of using high points for long club series? Thanks in advance BTW, I have a potentially cunning plan for an alternater scoring system - would need fiendish computer program. Goes something like 1. Find the person who sailed the 2nd highest number of races. 2. asses them, the person who sailed the most and anybody else who sailed the same number as the 2nd guy. 3. Score everybody in that group against everyone else 1 on 1 - see who won the most races when then raced between the 2 of them. You might allow a small number of discards to allow for rig failure etc (say 10%). If they tie, include the discards. If they still tie, use the relative positions (like high or low points at that stage). If they still tie, last race. If people never raced each other, the series cannot be scored! 4. You know have a series of A beat B, B beat C relationships. Most of the times these should give an obvious transitive order A> B>C, but if there is some sort of loop. use high point scoring between just those people etc. You should now have a ranking of that group - keep it. 5. Now consider the group who sailed the next fewest number of races. Apply steps 3/4 to that group (without considering the people already ranked). That gives you a ranking for that group. 6 For each person in that group from the highest ranked, compare to the previous group from the top - use the 1 on 1 comparison technique to determine whether the new person goes above or below someone from the existing group. Once you have found someone they go above (or reached the bottom of the existing list), you have found their position in the merged list. 7 now take the next person in the to be merged list and start the process in 6 with each person in the existing list below the person who has just been merged in. 8 repeat 5-6-7 for each group who have sailed less races until you cannot do a comparison - at which point that whole group cannot be ranked. Disadvantage - needs a program Advantage - represents the way we think about our oppponents - I beat him more times than he beat me. You can be sure that the guy above you and below you are in the right places considering all the races you both competed. Also, number of other sailor in any given race makes almost no difference unlike low/high points - it is a simple 1 v 1 match up most of the time Any thoughts? And yes, I am a software person! |
Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 07 Oct 08 at 9:02pm
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In my experience the sequence of events goes like this:-
1) Have clever idea for much fairer series scoring system 2) Draft email to Sailing scretary proposing big improvement 3) Spend an evening writing a spreadsheet to calculate the numbers 4) Calculate previous two Wednesday evening series results against selection of scoring systems including your new wonder one. 5) Observe that the results are very nearly the same no matter which system is used, 6) Sulkily delete draft email without sending. The only scoring system I've come across which makes much difference is one called "ostrobogolous" which is designed to keep a series alive as long as possible. When I did some analysis I discovered it does this by reducing the weighting of the first few races so much that it makes no difference at all whether you win, come last, or simply stay home at the beginning of the series! |
Posted By: pondscum
Date Posted: 08 Oct 08 at 8:33pm
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Observe that the results are very nearly the same no matter which system is used
actually one of the drivers for this is I am beating my most regular opponent because I am picking up points when he doesn't race and/or when we match up I am ahead on points when I get it together. he is more consistent and is just winning the 1 v1. |
Posted By: ChrisJ
Date Posted: 16 Oct 08 at 9:21pm
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It is VERY hard to get a scoring system that rewards regular turnouts, but also encourages people towards the end of the series. If you don't do this, then only those sailing at the beginning of the series will be racing at the end, and its very hard to get new people out onto the water. You would do better to look at what you are trying to achieve (more boats, reward good performance, reward regular turnouts, encourage beginners, encourage more good people who can only race at the club a few times) and then keep the normal low-scoring simple system, but also award special prizes (published in advance) to encourage your desired behaviour. We have used: "best results from 3 of last 5 races", "Fleet Captains regular turn out award", High score from top 4 or 5 races thru the series, gold / silver fleet, splitting the series into 2, so people can see prizes half way through the summer and be encouraged for the second half. All have "worked", None have dramatically altered the numbers of boats racing! |
Posted By: laser4000
Date Posted: 16 Oct 08 at 10:19pm
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Pondscum Slight aside but have you tried using personal handicaps in some of your events...these have worked very well at Burghfield for their wednesday night series and I think has contributed to the increased turnout, which I think is what you might be trying to achieve. Therre is an http://www.burghfieldsailing.org/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=30&MMN_position=37:15 - explanation of how it works , |