Rights to water after unwinding
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4727
Printed Date: 26 Jun 25 at 5:45pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Rights to water after unwinding
Posted By: roger harford
Subject: Rights to water after unwinding
Date Posted: 05 Oct 08 at 7:21pm
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Incident is at a mark to be rounded to port at the end of a run/reach. Boat A rounds mark the wrong way about six boat lengths ahead of Boat B. On realising his mistake A then gybes and tacks to unwind incorrect course all within the 2 boat circle. B is then within 2 boat circle and refuses to give water to A who is approaching from the opposite direction and will have to gybe to re-round mark within 2 boat circle. Should B have given water to A? |
Replies:
Posted By: MRJP BUZZ 585
Date Posted: 05 Oct 08 at 8:05pm
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In my little drawing i just did it seems that b should have given water as it seems that a was always an inside boat "If a boat was clear ahead at the time she reached the two-length zone, the boat clear astern shall thereafter keep clear. If the boat clear astern becomes overlapped outside the other boat, she shall also give the inside boat room. If the boat clear astern becomes overlapped inside the other boat, she is not entitled to room. If the boat that was clear ahead passes head to wind, rule 18.2(c) no longer applies and remains inapplicable." I assume even though a went the wrong way it still arrived at the two boat length circle while b was clear astern and therefore b owes room after becoming overlapped. I'm happy to be proven wrong though ------------- Josh Preater http://www.bu22.co.uk">  BUZZING IS FUN
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Posted By: Spyderman
Date Posted: 05 Oct 08 at 8:24pm
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Boat A looses her right of way under rule 18.2(c) as soon as her head passes head to wind. Which is when she tacks first to get back (RRS 18.2(c) final sentence) If my drawing is correct, she then becomes inside boat when boat B enters the circle. Boat B has to give her room under 18.2(a). Which means including room to gybe.   ------------- Are you interested in the Racing Rules of Sailing? Go to: http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com - http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Garry
Date Posted: 07 Oct 08 at 5:28pm
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I would agree except in my view at 6 yellow doesn't have to give room or anticipate blues bear away (a right of way boat must give the keep clear boat the opportunity to keep clear) Blue would be on port and therefore not right of way but entitled to room (again a subtlr shift of emphasise). The question for me in the protest room would be when was blue about to round (the point at which yellow must give room) and at what time was there an bobligation for yellow to give room and could she? Not as clear cut as sailing half the run overlapped.
Garry ------------- Garry Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
Posted By: Peter Barton
Date Posted: 07 Oct 08 at 7:20pm
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Isnt Spyderman's diagram the wrong way around? ("Incident is at a mark to be rounded to port at the end of a run/reach.") ------------- |
Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 07 Oct 08 at 10:04pm
Indeed- think he's got too much match racing on the brain! |
Posted By: Spyderman
Date Posted: 07 Oct 08 at 10:50pm
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Sorry about that. It's because we Dutch don't name the windward side, but use the leeward side to name the tack.... Bakboord (translates as Port) means that your sail is on the port side and therefore you say "On Starboard tack" I know, it's our own fault in never changing that in the rulebook.... Anyway, I gather: "a mark to be rounded to port" means: you have to leave it on the port side, yes? So here's the new drawing:  It does not change the rules as far as Blue looses ROW from 18.2(c) after passing head to wind in position 6. She then becomes inside boat under rule 18.2(a). AND - this is different from the other way round - ROW boat under rule 10 (starboard tack) She may not sail passed the mark further then needed to sail her proper course under rule 18.4. After her gybe she's windward boat and only entitled to room from Yellow until both have passed the mark. ------------- Are you interested in the Racing Rules of Sailing? Go to: http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com - http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 09 Oct 08 at 1:03pm
Ok, now I'm confused  I understand that a boat loses RoW after passing head to wind within the 2-boat circle. When does that 'penalty' cease? Is it the same is in open water where you regain normal status after settling onto the new tack? ------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: Spyderman
Date Posted: 09 Oct 08 at 5:40pm
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This rule normally comes into play at a windward mark, where a clear ahead boat tacks around the mark. From the moment she tacks she is no longer ROW boat under 18.2 (c), but keep clear boat under 13. Because of the unique situation in this case were the boat returns to go to the correct side of the mark, it also applies here. But don't regard it as a "penalty". Normally a tacking boat is also a keep clear boat. The final sentence in rule 18.2(c) just states that 18.2(c) is off, not any other rules. So they apply as soon as the boat passes head to wind. If she's inside boat at that moment she's entitled to room. She's is keep clear boat until she has turned to a close hauled course, and then after that - depending on which tack she is on - either row boat on starboard or keep clear boat on port. Rule 18.2(a) applies regardless. Unless the outside boat is UNABLE to give room. a valid point already made by Garry. ------------- Are you interested in the Racing Rules of Sailing? Go to: http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com - http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Garry
Date Posted: 09 Oct 08 at 6:59pm
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Looking at the RYA casebook RYA 1988/9 The rights of a boat that passes a mark on the wrong side, without touching it, and is unwinding, are not diminished in any way, and she is still on the same leg of the course as a boat rounding normally. ISAF CASE 2 Rule 18.2(c) does not apply between a boat clear ahead and a boat clear astern if the boat clear astern reaches the two-length zone before the boat clear ahead. Rule 18.2(b) does not apply between two boats that were not overlapped before the first of them to reach the twolength zone does so. Rule 18.2(a) applies only while boats are overlapped. When rules 18.2(a), 18.2(b) and 18.2(c) do not apply, right of way is determined by the relevant rule in Section A of Part 2. ------------- Garry Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |