You would think we would learn our lesson.  After losing nearly all our young female windsurfers when Australian Natasha Sturges joined Team GB it seems that we are ready to do the same with the RS:X class.  It seems that J P Tobin of New Zealand will be given top Lottery funding and funding allowance from the RYA.  What does this say to our young up and coming windsurfers such as Richard Hamilton and Elliot Carney who have put their education on hold in order to pursue their olympic dream.  In 2003 Dom Tidey was dropped by the RYA and earlier this year Leo McCallin (Nick Dempsey's long time training partner) was also dropped by the RYA.  Now we can see why. 

I have just joined the Y&Y Forum and I cannot belive what I am reading. My children love windsurfing and are hoping to get into the squad at some time in the future and hopefully qualify for the Olympics, I tell them that the only way is to practice to be the best, but if being the best means nothing at all to the RYA  and they then bring in someone from overseas I think I will try to get my children into some other sport where they will have more chance in following their dream

Someone needs to seriously  talk to whoever makes these decisions. We have proved this year in China that Team GB are the best why look oversea for team members when we obviously have the talent at home????????

Has J P Tobin got dual nationality?

I have no idea, but I do know that he has been sailing for NewZealand for years and has not made the cut for any of the Olympics and now he has been dropped by his own country he wants to come here and take the funding which should be allocated to our own youth sailors.  It should not be allowed.  There should be some rules that say if you have sailed for one country then you should not be able to change tack as it were.  There is nothing to stop him coming here, collecting our knowledge and then returning to New Zealand and passing it over.

I am sure there are nationality rules on these issues.

Why not get the facts before sounding off here?

There are many examples of athletes changing nationality, for example in sailing Mitch Booth won medals for AUS and sailed in China for NED ...

The RYA want to win.......if it means using dual nationality they'll do it. One thing young aspiring sailors need to learn about the Squad system and elite sailing is that if you don't make the grade they you get dropped like a stone.  

Of course you are welcome to your thoughts but he may be as British as you & me ... so that just leaves us with the age issue and I would agree that the youth should be developed as a priority.

The RYA are pretty good at getting medals so I am sure their processes and methods are sound.

I am sure if you asked the RYA Windsurfing Coach what the score is they would give a fair statement.

No, he is not as British as me, I was born in this country and would have absolutely no wish to sail for another country.  The age issue is of paramount importance considering he has produced nothing so far.  I am also aware that the RYA are good at getting medals but I would remind you that we have been down this road with the girl windsurfer from Australia.  Not only did we fund Natasha Sturges we also funded her brother who she insisted was her coach.  We lost almost all of our young females and I can see the same thing happening here.  Natasha did not perform at the Olympics and soon returned home to Australia.

I have asked the windsurfing coach, who said he had no knowledge of it.  Perhaps it is still supposed to be a secret.

Unfortunately it is not just my view of what may happen, it is happening.  J P Tobin will be competing at the Sail for Gold regatta next week.  If you check the site there is no sail number and no club (as yet).   I can understand you reticence to believe it but you can see for yourself next week.  You are of course correct in saying that we have plenty "new blood" coming up through T-15.

And so are plenty of other non-UK sailors.

That's hardly compelling evidence is it? S4G is an international regatta, and there are all sorts of reasons why Tobin might not have registered his sail number (messed up his entry form, borrowing kit in the UK to save transit costs from NZ, etc etc).

Also the RYA have a pretty good RS:X sailor in Nick D - 2 time Olympian, medallist 4 years ago, unlucky to miss out this time, aiming for 2012, 4 years younger than Tobin, already based at 2012 sailing venue... As well as good young prospects in Development squad and further down. To quote our american cousins on SA "I call BS"!

I agree with everything you say "furtive"but you will see next week. I wish you were correct.    By the way Nick-D is a three time olympian. 

Opens up an interesting debate - whilst we want to encourage homegrown talent - is sailing the only sport around that doesn't want so called 'foreign' imports?

I'm thinking that the nation has welcomed the likes of Rusedski, Hargreaves and the mighty KP?  Is it so bad that a Kiwi / grandson of an Englishman comes over to sail for GB?

n.b I'm making no comment on this person, his form or otherwise.

I can only speak personally but I am of the opinion that if we do not encourage our own homegown talent then we risk losing them the same as we did before.

Yep me too.

I don't know much about the funding system, but we've got four years to push our talent by pitting the best against the best. Why can't our homegrown talent step up and say 'hey, I'm not putting up with that' and then strive to beat their competition? 

I don't see how this rumoured decision should impact a young lad in such a profund way ... perhaps there is more to his giving up ... does he think he is the next Dempsey or is that you?

Now you're speculating as well

I seem to recall that some years ago we 'imported' another NZ star - I forget his name, but the intention wasn't to let him compete for the UK. He was brought in to help the UK fleet develop by giving them regular top competition and training / coaching 'boat on boat' against one of the very fastest in the world.

Maybe that's what's happening? Or does Nick provide that compeition to our upcoming youth stars?

yeah, may as well join in if thats the form ...

My GOD GRF is back!!!!!!!!

I for one missed your posts.Welcome back, and try not to pi** to many people off, this time.

2 blokes' rumours, one of whom is Grumpf! It must be true!

For me RYA can do no wrong, the results so far prove it.

If some kids gives up because of somebody gets some money  they don't, they will never win golds

Jon-Paul Tobin has joined the Skandia Team GBR ranks as the newest member of its RS:X men’s squad.

The 31-year-old – a former New Zealand world number one who finished seventh at the most recent RS:X Worlds in 2008 – has been drafted accepted into the Skandia Team GBR squad in a bid to develop strength in depth RS:X squad in the build-up to 2012.

Results from 1st day at Sail for Gold

http://www.sailracer.co.uk/events/sfg-results.asp?eventid=8559&classtype=RSXM - http://www.sailracer.co.uk/events/sfg-results.asp?eventid=85 59&classtype=RSXM

Will Mr Tobin be spending the winter in the UK in order to help develop the strength of the RS:X squad or will he be taking the funding and spending the winter in sunnier climates.  According to his web page http://www.jptobin.com - www.jptobin.com he will be competing in Australia in December.  I wonder how many RS:X sailors from the UK will be there.  Not many, I think, they will be continuing with their own hard work, out biking and sailing in all weathers. Of course where are the next olympics.  Oh yes, they are in Weymouth, not the southern hemisphere.

Thanks Bov.

So this thread is a rant about the funding of youth over experience.

I still say the RYA processes are hard to question given the results ...

They do not have enough money to sail all day, they are being subsidised by parents.  They only people being paid enough are Nick Dempsey and J P Tobin.  The latter being the problem.  Give the funding to Richard and Elliot.  And why should this thread be moved to Boards forum.  Do you think they are not part of Team GBR Sailing team??????????????

I thought the funding was distrbuted on a relatively objective basis, depending on results at key qualifying regattas such as Worlds/ Europeans and the Olympic circuit. There is little subjectivity in deciding what level of funding is given to individuals.

 IF I am correct then Hamilton and Carney are on whatever level of funding they would have been at regardless of JP Tobin being funded.

Also I believe the funding comes with coditions and goals attached to it (such as compete at Sail for Gold), so presumably the RYA coaches who ultimately have to answer for success at 2012/ 2016 can design the training and regatta schedule of the squad accordingly.

All sounds a bit sour grapes to me. 

Since you are evidently well-informed, how much money are we actually talking about here for Tobin?

Also since I can't find an online bio for Richard and Elliot and I'm afraid I'd not previously heard of them, how old are they? 

It will be in the region of £2000 per month (tax free) with extra funding for entry, travel etc to events (Australia/New Zealand) in Tobin's case.  Carney and Hamilton in the region of £700.

Results from Sail for Gold

2nd   Nick Dempsey

8th   Elliot Carney

9th   Richard Hamilton

11th  Leo McCallin

16th  J P Tobin 

Why would it be tax-free?

You didn't answer my question on Carney and Hamilton's age. Anyone know?

That's funny, the rest of the world thinks the RYA provides the model of how to harvest OIympic sailing medals. But G.R.F knows better.

G.R.F. hit the nail on the head when he pointed out the difference between windsurfing and the other sailing classes.  Ask the windsurfers if the RYA are doing a great job. I think you may be surprised. 

Laser 4000 - I do have an interest as my son is a windsurfer within the program.

So as you guys seem to know all the facts how much is the RYA allocating to the two Laser Classes relative to the two Windsurfers over a 4 year Olympic cycle?

That would be a fair comparison as they are all single handed with standard equipment ...