Jim C,

I have just been looking on http://www.cix.co.uk/~hjones/plusplus/index.htm - http://www.cix.co.uk/~hjones/plusplus/index.htm  and have seen the ++, I think thats an amazing boat! Do you still have it, what does it sail like, is is fast? Where do you sail it if you still have it.

Stick to the Contender, Dave - I'm sure you're gonna like it

Besides, we need you as a Contender helm to make up the fleet, so you're stuck with The Golden Snitch  

Wow,

That really does look a nice boat to sail !

Jim will hate me for this but - isn't the Blaze a little bit similar???

(Obviously the ++ is infinitely better developed etc etc)

Ummm i spose so but this isnt another mass production boat like topper make !

Go on Jimc it looks great !

looks pretty cool

Blaze a bit like ++ ?

Well I suppose so - similar length - ++ about 2" longer, width 2.5 v 2.7m but sail size - a biggest difference there ....  The Blaze carries 10.0m and the ++ looks way over 12m.  (Remember the Laser carries only 7.07m !)  So I'd suggest that the ++ would definately appeal to larger helms !

Another way to go is to ask is there any real support for a 'big boys' rig for the Blaze ?  We've been considering it for a couple of years now in the association as those much over about 95kg do suffer relatively across the full range of conditions.  The concensus is that a '600' size rig is too big without a trapeze as there are limits to what works with wings when its really windy but that 11.5 metres should be possible with a longer stick (and possibly a carbon one at that)  Might make more sense to build on prospering class and grow it on the back of an already supported and expanding circuit.   

We have followed this discussion with interest - The ++ is a great concept if you like wings and are 'adult' sized but I would not be tempted to make it narrower on the waterline.   Of course you can go faster still if you do - but mortals have to  race and enjoy it as well ! 

Anyone interested in a 14' winged weight carrier with a big rig - come along to the Blaze association stand at Alexandra palace.  If enough do we'll seriously look at a variant - and maybe call it 'XX'  ? If those behind the ++ wanted to maintain a seperate class development we'd still be happy to assist in any way we can. More people racing and enjoying it is good whatever they sail ...... 

Cheers - Mike Lyons - Blaze Class association

PS - TOTALLY independent from the manufacturer in case you ever wondered (that's why it works ....!) 

Mike

Whats the minimum weight for a blaze nowadays? I am right in thinking all the weight equalisation has been chucked and everyone's sailing on max racks and no lead? Apart from the gooseneck being lowered are the old ali masts the same as on the new 'x' blazes? ie with just the new sail upgrade is an old boat competitive?

Cheers

Jim,  I'm just trying to understand your rise of floor rule...

"Rise of floor shall be measured with an inverted U shaped gauge. The two legs shall be 900mm apart and 100mm long. A line shall be marked exactly between the two legs of the U. This establishes a rise of floor of 100mm at a point 450mm each side of the centreline. The gauge shall be run along the boat from the bow until a point is reached where both legs are in contact with the hull of the boat and the centre mark is in contact with the centreline of the keel. This point shall be marked as point A. The gauge shall then be run along the hull until the centre mark is no longer touching the hull or the end of the hull is reached. This point shall be marked as point B. The distance between point A and point B shall be at least 1.2m. If bumps or distortions exist that in the measurer's opinion exist solely or primarily to affect these measurements then the measurer should estimate where the measurement points would have come without those distortions and mark points A and B appropriately."

Up to the marking of point A, everything is clear.  Aft of point A I am not so clear.  Is it acceptable for only the centre of the gauge to touch the keel with the two legs not touching the hull?

I guess if the intention is to maintain a fairly narrow waterline beam then the answer should be yes...

very true - and I can see for the ++ it is doubly difficult as you are trying to prevent both very wide and very narrow boats...

Looks like a Blaze to me ...

When are the Blaze fleet going to come clean on this handicap - the added sail area, widened the boat and removed lead ... the PY should be adjusted!!

Rick

I think you'll find the sail area has been reduced - http://www.blaze-sailing.org.uk/ - http://www.blaze-sailing.org.uk/

Isn't the point of the yardstick that it's based on real results but can be changed by any race officer? In which case just petition you RO and make sure Whitstable Yacht Club sends it's returns in - job done with the minimum of whingeing

http://www.blaze-sailing.org.uk/ -  

Jim

Aren't you tempted to make it a one design and prove you development guys build better boats? You said yourself you're getting bored with boatbuilding.

I, for one would give it a test sail as the range of boats for me is fairly limited because of my largeness - even thinking of taking Mike up on his 'Supersize me' Blaze idea.

Just reading through this topic and i've noticed nobody has brought up the RS300, which to me seems closer to the ++ than the Blaze.

RS300 simlar length, again less sail area but also narrower than the ++.

Wasn't the 300 also designed by a moth sailor that was too old and heavy for the International Moth, not that i'm saying that fits your description Jim.

When are the Blaze fleet going to come clean on this handicap - the added sail area, widened the boat and removed lead ... the PY should be adjusted

Well if it was all factual that might be appropriate !!  The sail size was REDUCED - repeat REDUCED to make it more manageable about 4 years ago.  The original had far too much roach to be useful except offwind in light stuff.  The boom was lowered to get a bit of the area back but its still much smaller overall than previously.  The width is unchanged - the weights went years and years ago (never worked anyway and ripped your wetsuit to shreds).  As for the handicap - if it blows we will be all over you given half a chance but if it's light there are a raft of boats that show us the way home.  PN's are averages, after all, across a range of wind conditions. For instance the carbon masted epoxy Phantom is very fast when its light and medium but only the very best can still sail it to handicap when it blows.  (Phantoms -please take this as compliment from someone who is too light for one).  We don't set the PN by the way - return assessment is by the RYA - the last time THEY changed it it went from 1045 to 1047 - reflecting actual results.  I think this 'easy PN' perception comes because people actually watch racing in blowy conditions when we do well and ignore it when its 100% displacement (those more boring times).  The Contender is another class that can burn off nearly everything when its blowy but is less fast in the light stuff, ditto Moth and half a dozen others.  Might make more sense to have light wind / heavy wind split PN's across the board (..cos I'd like to do better on light days as well !)

We allow very limited changes which are reviewed periodically and are much tighter than most other 'one-designs'.  Standard Hull, foils, spars (only M7 currently) and maximum width, minumum weight.  No extra controls allowed but you can modify any that are there already.  Early boats can be converted to the 'new' sail and no spar changes are needed.  

Go on - give one a try if you get the chance.  If it's not for you fine, but it is getting increasingly popular for some reason or another.  For instance we already have more than 20 pre-paid entries for the June 2005 Nationals and it's only mid-February...... 

Cheers - Mike Lyons (Blaze Class Association)