Future Youth Classes
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Multihulls
Forum Name: Dinghy multihulls
Forum Discription: For those who prefer two (or more) hulls to one!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4575
Printed Date: 29 Jun 25 at 3:55pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Future Youth Classes
Posted By: Catsrule
Subject: Future Youth Classes
Date Posted: 26 Aug 08 at 9:22pm
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This weekend i've just done the dragoon nationals but now me and my crew are really pushing it weight wise and we need to move up. My goal now is to sail an f18. What would be the Rya's thoughts on using a small rig f18 as the youth boat, they're easy to get hold of now and some designs are fairly cheap. What are your thoughts on this idea?? ------------- There's no such thing as bad day on the water!! |
Replies:
Posted By: Worthy
Date Posted: 26 Aug 08 at 10:42pm
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Safety first, how heavy are you? Less than 125kg (poss 130kg) and you won't be able to get it upright!! |
Posted By: Dermot M
Date Posted: 27 Aug 08 at 2:17pm
Spitfire first - then F18  ------------- Dermot Shadow 075 |
Posted By: Chew my RS
Date Posted: 27 Aug 08 at 2:26pm
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The boat might be too wide with a smaller rig on it - Wild Thing would be harder to do and this wouldn't teach good practise. ------------- http://www.sailns14.org - http://www.sailns14.org - The ultimate family raceboat now available in the UK |
Posted By: Worthy
Date Posted: 27 Aug 08 at 2:36pm
The small rig isn't that small! The main is the same (17m2), the jib is less than 1m smaller (3.45m2) and the kite is 2m smaller (19m2). I have used the small rig years ago, and if you are less than 140kg you won't notice much difference. |
Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 27 Aug 08 at 6:33pm
| Spitfire is the obvious choice but the need to ensure that a youth boat is affordable may prevent it from ever happening. My father-in-laws Spitfire was around the same price as an RS800 which I'm guessing is probably not far from a 29er so I suppose its possible. Just needs the official buy in but is their sufficient support for a youth multihull programme ? |
Posted By: AdrianM
Date Posted: 27 Aug 08 at 6:34pm
| I'm with Dermot, Spitfire would seem the logical step towards F18 and better suited to the lightweight. Not sure how many 'small rig' boats there actually are and a new jib and genny likely to cost best part of a grand if you had to convert. |
Posted By: Teamvmg
Date Posted: 28 Aug 08 at 6:25pm
| I think that UKRA have plans afoot on this one............... |
Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 28 Aug 08 at 8:42pm
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I think you might be right.... ------------- Wanna learn to Ski - PM me.. |
Posted By: Catsrule
Date Posted: 29 Aug 08 at 11:40am
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I think teh spitfire is a good option but is just the price that is a bit of a off putting factor. The adavntage we found with having a f18 with a smaller rig is that you can most likley pick up and f18 cheaper the a spitfire, you struggle to get a spitfire under £4500. ------------- There's no such thing as bad day on the water!! |
Posted By: gary145
Date Posted: 29 Aug 08 at 7:39pm
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yes but your £4500 spit will be the same boat as a new one, will a £4500 F18 be the same as a new one? or will you have to spend more to get it as fast? ------------- |
Posted By: Teamvmg
Date Posted: 29 Aug 08 at 10:04pm
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The Hobie 16 is the 2009 ISAF youth class and there is top level support available from the RYA to help youth H16 sailors Surely its a fairly straight foward progression from Dragoon? |
Posted By: Dermot M
Date Posted: 31 Aug 08 at 10:52am
It is Sunday morning and I didn't have a drink last night so I'm quite sober, but it has to be said: The original question was, "what Class to move on to". Not wanting an any way to take from Brian Phipps, the Youth Squad and the RYA, but, the only thing that the Hobie 16 is a progression from, is two logs strapped together - and maybe, the Hobie 14. It was good fun in its day. And I know that it is still raced in Countries around the World, but even the Dragoon is more like the Formuls 18 than the Hobie 16. A modern design is needed, similar to a Formula 18, but for lighter crews. I'll get me coat ! At least I've got the Irish Sea between most of you and me ------------- Dermot Shadow 075 |
Posted By: Seb_PBSC
Date Posted: 01 Sep 08 at 9:28am
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What about the SL16?
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Posted By: Catsrule
Date Posted: 01 Sep 08 at 7:00pm
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The What?? ------------- There's no such thing as bad day on the water!! |
Posted By: Elvis
Date Posted: 03 Sep 08 at 12:00am
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if I was 14-18 and managed to save 4 grand for a boat I'd buy an old tiger. its
not gonna win you the worlds, but it will last till you get your skills up and still be sellable after a couple of years SL16 is s**t H16 are great in a F6, but no one races em in UK any more. Why you would want a kite on a H16 is still beyond me?? Dart's are dull but have great racing there are only 15 spitfires in the country and no euros or worlds to go to that only leaves the F18... and they have black sails which are cool 
or you could buy a tornado plenty around at the moment!! |
Posted By: Seb_PBSC
Date Posted: 03 Sep 08 at 12:20am
| SL 16 is better than you think, and perfect for youth boat compared to any other boat on the market |
Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 03 Sep 08 at 12:35am
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Don't think you are right there. There were 20 at Rutland in May, 24 at the nats last year and the Euros were at Ostend. ------------- Wanna learn to Ski - PM me.. |
Posted By: Dermot M
Date Posted: 03 Sep 08 at 9:22am
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There are over 200 Spitfires built, mainly spread between UK, France and Ireland. ------------- Dermot Shadow 075 |
Posted By: sstannard
Date Posted: 03 Sep 08 at 2:53pm
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At the expense of appearing to hijack the thread,... I have certainly seen more than 20 Spitfires in a group. They're great boats. Oh, and I happen to have one for sale which is not too far off your price, especially when you take account of all the extras that are included: http://www.dee-sc.co.uk/docs/2008/Spitfire076ForSale.pdf - http://www.dee-sc.co.uk/docs/2008/Spitfire076ForSale.pdf I'm selling it because I now sail solo on the Spitti's little sister, but I love the Spitti! ------------- So L'Eau - Shadow 067 White Tiger - Spitfire 076 Animal - Nacra 6.0 GBR400 |
Posted By: Elvis
Date Posted: 04 Sep 08 at 12:14am
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Don't get me wrong I'm not bashing spitfires, they're a great boat... but
there just aren't that many of them about. If you want a boat to learn about racing then you need a big strong fleet with national, european & international events which only leaves the Dart 18, hobie 16 and F18 as realistic options. I'm sure the decision has already been made, but moving into spitfires will not fix the previous cock-ups made by the youth program. One of the problems is it's run by parents, who take short term decisions to help their own offspring and then disappear over the horizon once said offspring turn 18 and discover beer and girls. You can't blame em really but the RYA should doing more to manage the progam with long term objectives, rather than expecting small class associations and parents to take the brunt. The hobie 16 was a good youth boat and any young team could go out and buy a grands worth of boat and join in... but putting a kite on it split the UK racing fleet in two, which was shortly followed by a rapid demise of the whole fleet. If I was a spitfire owner I'd be a little concerned if the youth squad moved in as history has a habit of repeating itself. |
Posted By: AdrianM
Date Posted: 04 Sep 08 at 10:43am
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From an interested spectators point of view I would not have classified Brian Phipps' achievments as having been driven by focussing purely on his offspring. The number and quality of sailors who came through that youth program to my mind were very impressive. And having spoken to some of the guys looking after the Dragoons this year the impression I got was that their main interest was in developing youth cat sailing in general. As an aside I wouldn't say that the F18 events in the UK are particularly better attended than Spitfires, indeed this years Nationals had about half the number that were at Worthing in 2006. Lastly isn't the choice of boat more down to ISAF rather than the local national authority? |