Right. Having done a bit of sailing in our youth, and been on a couple of sailing-themed holidays, we feel the time has come to own our own. Having seen previous posts, I figured the easiest way to describe what I thought we wanted was to answer a series of pre-asked questions, and see how far that got me. So, your suggestions please...

Where do you live.

Basingstoke.

Will you be sailing on the sea or on an inland water.

Sea. Somewhere between Portsmouth and Lymington.

How often do you want to sail.

Realistically, three weekends a month, although I can see some holiday weeks being spent on the water as well.

Will sailing be your main hobby.

Probably.

Who will mainly be sailing/racing the boat.

Me (more confidence than ability) and my Mrs (the other way round).

How much do you and/or your crew weigh and how tall are they.

Me:6'1", 15st. Her: 5'7", 10st.(ish)

How much do you wish to spend.

Probably between £1000 and £2000, but it rather depends on what's out there. If it's less then so much the better.

Do you want a new boat or a second hand one.

See above.

Do you want a traditional class or one of the newer class boats.

Something that we can learn some more in, that has a trapeze. Don't want all wood, but could cope with some.

Do you want to travel with your boat, to race or potter.

I don't want to rule out any of these, but I don't know which will dominate.

Do you want to keep your boat at home or elsewhere e.g. at a club.

Probably keep it at home, but again, I don't know.

Do you want to join a club.

I'd have thought so. But which one, given the myriad of chouces along that stretch of water?

What clubs are near to you and do they meet your needs.

Not really. We'd rather sail on the sea. But I suppose it's not that far.

What classes are sailed/raced at the club and what are the turn outs like.

See above.

Are you looking for a club which has a strong social/kids section/crèche, etc.

Childless and loving it. Don't want anything to cliquey.

How far are you prepared to travel in order to sail.

See above.

Do you want a dinghy, a keelboat or a catamaran.

Dinghy, maybe keelboat (e.g. f15?). Not a cat. She hates cats.

Do you need a trailer or will you car top.

Trailer.

Do you want a high performance boat or a slower one.

Highish without being a liability when handled by muppets. Trapeze and spinny (are symetrics very difficult compared to gennakers?), but don't want to be put off by an evil skiff.

Without wishing to prejudice any responses, my current, thoroughly ill-informed shortlist includes, but is not limited to:

• an ISO
• one of the fastsail lot (fd, osprey, 470, 505, javelin etc.)
• something a bit older like a scorpion

I don't weant something too cramped, or that we're overweight (I mailto:i@m - 'm aware that the competitive weights are quite a bit lower than we are for a lot of classes).

So that's about it. Please feel free to debunk or otherwise giggle at my choices. But only if you follow with something nice and constructive.

Cheers,

El T.

a buzz or iso is a good bet cos they are made buy a good company and there are loads of spare parts around.

an assametric spinny is much easier than an symetrical one just because there is useually a single line hoist and drop rope.  i personally learnt in a assametric and they are quite easy to use.

lymington is a good frendly club but there are quite a lot of cats there .

Porchester, weston, stokes Bay, Lymington- there are loads of clubs there, you'll be spoiled by choice.

An rs400 sounds like a good bet, especially if you decide you want to race.

Yes i agree with you there but it is still possible to mess about in a 400, it is quite a good all purpose boat.

Hi El Thermidor,

I noticed that you used some of my questions from another post from last year, I am pleased that they were of use to you.

I suspect that you might be asking for too much and that you might have to compromise somewhere.  You are a big bloke at 6' 1" tall and 15 stones in weight, with your wife at say 10 stones then you have an all up weight of 25 stones. Your height and your combined weight means that you need a boat which will carry quite alot of weight so you are looking at hiking boats such as an RS 400, an Albacore or a Merlin Rocket or trapeze boats such as an Osprey, Flying Dutchman, Boss, Int.14, Javelin, etc.  Some of these trapeze boats such as Int. 14 are very technical and they are all 'high performance'. Wouldn't they be too advanced for you at your skill level? Are you good at swimming (sic)?

The next thing is how much you want to spend i.e.£1000 to £2000.  With all due respect, you will be struggling to get an RS 400, an Albacore or some of the trapeze boats for that amount of money.  Like everything else, you get what you pay for.  You state that you don't want an all wooden boat, some of the old Albacores and Merlins are wood within that price range and it is possible to get GRP or composite Merlins within that price range.

It looks as though you want to have some fun and want a challenge, I realise that your wife does not like cats but a Dart 18 might be a good option, you would still be quite heavy but they are a big, fast, powerful boat and they have a trapeze which you say you would also like.  Again, at your skill level you would find it very forgiving and there would be less swimming.  The other thing is that you could easily pick one up for less than £2000.

You have also mentioned a Flying 15 keelboat.  The boat would be okay for you but it would be a very old boat to be within your price range.

So far as relates to clubs, you have a massive choice, there are lots of clubs on the south coast in the area you have stated. Examples would be Hayling Island (good FF fleet), Stokes Bay (good RS400 and Dart 18 fleets), Lee on the Solent (RS 400 and FD fleets), Weston (RS 400 fleet), Itchenor (FF and Int. 14 fleets), Chichester (RS 400 fleet) Netley (Albacore Fleet) and there are many others.

There is an RS 400 for £2250 on the RS site, which is by far the cheapest and it is a very old boat - about 10 years old, the rest are around the £3000 mark. 

Personally,I think that it is a good idea to choose a club first and then get a boat that they sail at that club, visit them all, more than once, on race days and find one you like.  When you have done this, then decide on a boat that meets your requirements.

It is possible to get an older Merlin Rocket within your price range but unless you were to go to the Poole area, I don't think that there are any big Merlin fleets, at the clubs mentioned, but you could always sail in a 'handicap' fleet.

To get some idea of boat prices you could take a look at the back of Yachts and Yachting magazine, the  'for sale' sections in the clubs and classes sections of this site or take a look at www.dinghyshop.co.uk .

Thanks very much for your replies so far. We looked at the RS400 at the boat show, but had discounted it on cost grounds. We were offered a laser 5000 FOC this season, but decided it was going to be too much of a handful. We were looking at a laser 3000, but it's a bit small and right at the top of our price bracket, even for an early one. And she doesn't like cats (fun though they are) because of the difficulty we had righting one last year...

I'm happy enough in a laser in a stiff breeze, have sailed the Feva XL single-handed with 3 sails (and 2 up, but that was a bit snu), and we've sailed the laser 2000 happily enough using trapeze and genny.

iansmithofotley: you say that the older trapeze boats are very technical and high performance. While I don't want to capsize every time we try to tack, I do want something to learn and develop in. Would they be too much? Swimming a few times is to be expected (all part of the fun), but all the time is a drag.

I didn't want to discount the older stuff just because it wasn't an RS or laser. I figured we'd get more for our money in an "unfashionable" class. I'd anticipated being in a handicap fleet.

its ok. i think many people get the misconception that some boats are just for racing and some are just for cruising- i'd say all boats are for sailing, but some have a racing possibility as well. Your right you can learn as you go, and you'll never grow out of the 400, there will always be another challenge eg: perfect hoists and drops, more speed, racing etc. Its a great boat, and if I had the cash i'd buy its little sister the 200.

The 400 is a great boat for learning to improve on. After 30 years of racing, mainly in Enterprise & Fireball but also various other classes, I still find that after 3 years in the RS400 I am still discovering new things to improve on.

You can sail the 400 fairly easily. Up wind you can de-power while on the water by reducing the jib halyard tension and pulling the kicker on hard. Down wind once the kite is up the boat is very well balanced - and if you get a gust you can just bear away to keep her upright.

Where it gets tricky is when you start to race! Then you don't want to de-power too much up wind as you need the power for speed; and you may not always be able to bear away down wind as other boats or directions to the next mark might prevent it.

If you like the look of the 400, get one! I know people who bought a 400 just from the looks at the first boat show it appeared at (1994?), before ever seeing one sail. They are still sailing 400's 11 years later.

Hmmm. This doesn't change the fact that I can't afford one...

So come on old-timers: what did 400 sailors sail before the 400 existed? "Improver" boats must have existed: I can't believe people went straight from Mirrors to the lairiest things available. All the better if it has a wire for 'er indoors...

I've had a quick look at the int. 14: it's twin trapeze, which I think rules it out as too skiffish. But the symmetric classes are single trapeze, making them... more stable and sane...?

So finally we come to it.....sense prevails, and you go to the Osprey web site and check out with the guys there what's available.  http://www.ospreysailing.org.uk - www.ospreysailing.org.uk .   or if you like, bounce over to http://www.fastsail.org - www.fastsail.org

We'll sort you out

This is where I get slated for being far to stick in the mud and old fashioned, but hear me out.

Have you considered the Wayfarer world, basically a wayfarer with an assymetric: Advantages:  Loads of space for picnic dogs, small car etc, stable suitable for coastal cruising.  Stick the fairly big Assy up and they will shift with a suitable breeze, can easily be fitted with a trapeze, fibreglass constuction for minimal maintenance, double skinned floor gives better bouyancy during/after capsize than traditional wayfarer design.  Can be adapted to standard kite if you want ot race it, active class association.  Before you ask I don't sail one, I have a 400, just thought I'd add another boat to the discussion.

RE: >>what did 400 sailors sail before the 400 existed??

Lots of them could be found in boats that gave good exciting close racing like Enterprises (but the crew complained of boredom) and Fireballs (but you needed a light-weight helm and a heavier crew).

Others were in "fast" boats like the Laser 2 (but you sit continuously in the spray from the bow wave), or in weight carrying single-handers like the Phantom (but we didn't want to admit we were over-weight!).

I would of thought that a Fireball would suit you !

Very nice boats to sail!

Thermidor - my folks took on a Fireball as their second boat after some meesing about in a tub and loved every minute of it (even sailing in waters infested with Hippos and crocs - literally).  Size and weight wise they were very similar to you.

My sister and I had our first sailing experience wedged into it as well - just incase Kids arrive unannounced...

well a hornet is basically a scorpion with a trapeze and i little bit bigger sail area

You'll probably find a competitive Hornet at a much lower price than either Scorpion or Fireball

Good value and last for ever......

Didnt think of a hornet they seem to be dying out though or is that just in north wales?

Depending upon how you measure the success of a class, you could say a lot of classes are dying. If you use number of championship entries and number of new boats as your criteria, would you describe the ISO or even L4000 as flourishing classes? Probably not.

But does that matter? If you are looking for a new boat to stretch yourself a little, and are on a limited budget, there are many options including all the Fastsail classes.

For your information according to the Y&Y classes website, the Hornet have been enjoying more numbers at the championships than many of the younger classes for example ISO.