Hi Hurricane,

I think that, in practice, and wrongly, as you have said, we all set our watches to the sound signals. Often, particularly in club racing, when the start line is not far from the shore and the launching area, some people don't even launch until the 'warning signal' and prior to that they are messing about with their boats on the shore, they wait for the sound signal with their watches on zero, or countdown, and then just hit the button on the sound signal.

In some clubs, like my own, probably 75% of club members who act as race officers, haven't got a clue about the flags and sound signals and their sequences. It became such a problem that the club invested in a timing device fitted to the hooter that automatically sounds at 5,4,1,0 (see http://www.autohoot.com - www.autohoot.com ). Even then, we are lucky to get the flags going up and down in the right order.  With this 'automatic' system, it is still easy to raise a flag at the wrong time purely through the inexperience of the race officer.  Again, like you say, most people just work off the sound signals, even though it is wrong.  The good thing with the 'automatic' sound signals is that they are absolutely accurate so everyone is happy.

I think that many club sailors, at small clubs, who only do duties a couple of times a year, and who don't race themselves (and particularly windsurfers who have no interest in dinghy racing anyway and have been, in my opinion, wrongly allocated race officer duties for dinghy racing), struggle with the whole business of setting courses, starting races and using the equipment available. The funny thing is that, often, they never get any better, they do it so infrequently that they forget, or they never make any effort to learn in the first place until they turn up at the club on the day, and then they complain that nobody has shown them what to do.

This is another topic in itself i.e. allocation of duties, race officer training, 'no duty' memberships, etc., etc.  The consequence of all this is that it is always the same small group of people who are detailed to run the various open meetings throughout the year.

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)

Dr C.

We now have 6 races at the Grafam cat open.  I did not know about this, but apologies on whom ever did it wrong's behalf.  I am sure it was a mistake that will never happen again at the Cat open.  I've never heard of this happening before at Grafham, we usually get it right.  Come to the next Cat open and I will buy you a beer to make up for it.

Want to hear a bigger farce,

My sons untill recently sailed Toppers, an intensely competitive fleet with big numbers , they attended an inland regatta the last regatta of the travellers and decider of overall postions in series for many.

Due to layout it was possible for spectators to stand below starters balcony on Start layline to watch the fun on the poorly set line , race started in complete confusion , flags and horns a plenty !, r.o was heard to request general recall which was made with flags and sound signals , a rib rounded up leaders and front half of fleetand his calls of generall recall were clearly heard ashore and he sent them back , then R.O decided to let race continue !!!!

When the unfortunate youngsters - many of whom weren't over the line appealed for redress (quite rightly as they had been seriously affected by the R.O's actions) , redress was denied alongside the unfortunate sequence of events even happening !!!

Infact the class coach was asked to get the redress seekers to withdraw their request !

The R.O in question was an imported "expert" to help out an inexperienced club , not much help !

Needless to say we never returned there

Yes the rules say the flags are the real signal and the hoot is to draw your attention to it. However, in most start huts I've been allowed in there is 1 person doing the hoot and another the flag and the flag starts to go up when they hear the hoot. So over a short distance the hoot is more accurate.

Of course over a long line the hoot may arrive to some competitors seconds after others which is why it's better use the flags.

Basically if you go by the hoot you shouldn't ever be over the line!

Ooh now I'm intrigued, did anyone take it further? Can spectators be called to a protest committe?

No in the intrests of civility the children learnt the hard way, unfortunately, rules don't always get obeyed even by some  Race committees and this R.O had no excuse due to his supposed standing. It wasn't the only stinking decision of the weekend.

They could have appealed to RYA but that would have been taking it too far. The kids were mature enough to accept a bad situation and parents too after a while .To futher the debacle would have ruined the weekend .

It was unjust , but at least the kids knew it unlike the R.O .

Oh I don't know. They might have found the process quite educational. 

 Very true , but a lengthy process , bin there and done it myself before , took 4 months ! from race to favourable (and correct) out come , as it had gone into another year , I settled for moral victory .Wouldn't bother again  unless particularily wound up , I know it does sport no good though .

Praps someone should start another thread (as we are losing it ) addressing the affects of not protesting and not seeking redress to relevant authorities and it's impact on our sport as a whole, the way I see it the less folk follow protests/redress situations the more chaotic racing gets .

Couldn't agree more, I've almost protested during club races due to blatent rule flouting but decided not due to peer pressure. In fact I decided I had to protest on one occasion because my boat was damaged during the incident (£500+ repair) and the other party was denying responsibility.

Maybe there should be a streamlined process for more informal situations like club racing though. It took several days to get a hearing organised and most people were beginning to forget what happened.

At Redesmere we have a kind of informal chat with the sailors, deciding what a protest commitee would find etc., and allowing the protestor to pursue if they want to, but most people retire/ leave it.

regarding the topper incident: i have been in five topper protests, and allhave benn well managed by the club/ ITCA (including a redress at plym yc) bar one, which was an absolute shambles!

Want to name and Shame the Club Catmandid?

The RS assoc was discussing something like a mediation system, where you would get advice as to the likely outcome of a formal protest from v.experienced sailors before going ahead. The object being 1.to encourage competitors to enforce the rules, 2. to ensure the guilty party understood what they'd done wrong 3. to avoid lengthy protest meetings when everyone really wanted to be in the bar. Those involved would have the option of accepting the advisors descision or going ahead with the formal protest.

The perception being that people often don't protest 'cos they can't be bothered with it all. Don't know how far they got- I think it stalled for lack of suitable or willing mediators. Anyone know?

Three minuite justice.

One min for each side of the argument to put their case and one min for a decision to be made.  Decision is final and its all done in the time it takes to order the round for everyone, simple!

Are they really so lengthy? I've been involved with a few and none took longer than 20 minutes. What does take time is getting a committee together and none of the alternatives suggested avoid that.

At our club we've got a lot of "new" racers doing our Monday dinghy series.  There's a lot of poor rules observance - usually by people who've been sailing a long time but who don't race much and really don't know the rules.  We've only ever had one protest - and there was never a hearing .

We'd actually like a protest.  If we get one, we've thought about trying to hold it "in public" (as long as protestor/ee are happy) just as a way of showing people how a protest hearing actually works.  Most people have no idea what goes on until they end up at one - whether as one of the protagonists, a witness or a committee member.

At our club we run a highly competitive sunday series and a more relaxed thursday eve series.  I take part in both and we haven't EVER had a protest comitee.  To be hounest nobody knows what to do.  Is there a guide for club race officers on how to deal with protests.  We'd like a go at it, as i believe it gives you a better understanding of the rules, but it just dont see it happening.

Anybody know the best route into 'friendly' protest procedings?

thats a good idea.

So what is the actual process of a protest comitee? i know how to lodge a process but have no idea from then on?