Which Cat?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Multihulls
Forum Name: Dinghy multihulls
Forum Discription: For those who prefer two (or more) hulls to one!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3942
Printed Date: 29 Jun 25 at 7:12pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Which Cat?
Posted By: DanW
Subject: Which Cat?
Date Posted: 15 Feb 08 at 10:59pm
Hi folks
I forumed about 8 months ago about what would be the best cat for me. I'm now definitly ready to buy. Budget is up to 5k for something special but would rather spend less.Im looking at 2nd hand cats on the market and am tempted by the Hurricane. They seem reasonably priced with good performance. What are the pitfalls with this boat, if at all, and what is the opinion of our friends here on hobie 18 pacifics and hobie 20 s. Bearing in mind me and crew are not bothered by racing at class level, but just want to blast around as fast as possible, without too much fuss and the occasional long distance race weekend.
Thanks
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Replies:
Posted By: Worthy
Date Posted: 16 Feb 08 at 4:00pm
How heavy are you and your crew? And what is your experience in sailing and in cats?
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Posted By: DanW
Date Posted: 16 Feb 08 at 5:23pm
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crew weight is 26 stone, and experience is limited to dart 16, with experience on yachts too. However, were both fit, stupidly fearless and learn quickly. Cheesy i know but i think we could cope with a challenge, its the fine trimming and technical side of things that we would fall down on. It is more for fun than anything else
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Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 16 Feb 08 at 6:13pm
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Anything F18 then if your really up for it.
You may want to get a Dart 18 to test yourself before splashing out on loads of money. Sell it on after when you want more challenges.
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Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 16 Feb 08 at 7:53pm
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I'd say a Hurricane will fit the bill; Take it easy to start with and build up to the big winds. A hurricane 5.9 is a fine boat (I've owned 2) and for 5K you could get a stunning example that will last you for a long time. They are very very well built, will carry weight well and go like stink.
have a read of http://www.hurricane59.com/ - http://www.hurricane59.com/
boats for sale: http://hurricane59.myfreeforum.org/forum6.php - http://hurricane59.myfreeforum.org/forum6.php
Where are you based?
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 17 Feb 08 at 1:58pm
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You could pick up a cheap Dart 18 around the £1000 - £1500 try it for a bit and sell it on if you don't like it. I'm sure you wouldn't lose much money on it, if any.
Great fleet and class commitee. Try their class website for buying guide etc -
http://www.dart18.com - www.dart18.com
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Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 17 Feb 08 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by ASok
You could pick up a cheap Dart 18 around the £1000 - £1500 try it for a bit and sell it on if you don't like it. I'm sure you wouldn't lose much money on it, if any.
Great fleet and class commitee. Try their class website for buying guide etc -
http://www.dart18.com - www.dart18.com
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I think 26 stone would be a lot too much for a Dart 18!
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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Posted By: DanW
Date Posted: 17 Feb 08 at 6:08pm
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What are the fundamental differences between a hurricane and say a nacra, in regards to performance, simplicity, ease of handling, durability etc. Also has anyone an opinion or any experience with the hobie pacific. looks pretty awesome with the wings.
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Posted By: Wee Man
Date Posted: 17 Feb 08 at 6:24pm
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I've never tried the Pacific but had a Hobie 18. Heavy old boat but will take all the abuse you can throw at it. The wings are just extra weight, don't bother.
I'd recommend a Hurricane, had one until last year. Very quick and a good fleet, parts are easy to come by, try to get one with the SX kit (Spinaker & jib self tacker)
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Posted By: Worthy
Date Posted: 17 Feb 08 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by DanW
What are the fundamental differences between a hurricane and say a nacra, in regards to performance, simplicity, ease of handling, durability etc. Also has anyone an opinion or any experience with the hobie pacific. looks pretty awesome with the wings. |
Big question! I just want to sit back first and go through some of the options, and then your question will probably answer itself.
The Hurricane 5.9 was designed much the same as the tornado (1970s I think). It is 20 ft long and has a lot of power (all 20 ft cats do!), but the power is controlable. The 5.9 is designed as a racing cat and has recently had the SX rig added as an option which gives a different jib and a spinnaker. It will easily carry the weight, and you will be able to pick one up quite cheaply. Warning, if you buy a 2 sail boat and you want to upgrade it to an SX rig in the future the upgrade will cost you iro £1500.
F18s are numerous, powerful and fun. You can pick an older one up for your budget. However, at 165kg in new money, you are very heavy for the boat and so if you want to race it at some point you won't be as competitive as lighter crews. F18s can dent easily too.
Nacras, there is a wide range. You would probably go for a Nacra F20, a 20ft F18 which will carry your weight very well. The Nacra F20 is a much more modern design than the Hurricane and has 3 sails. There isn't all that much fleet racing though in the UK. Again you should be able to pick one up within your budget. I have a lot of Nacra contacts so pm me if you are thinking along these lines.
You have also mentioned the Hobie Pacific. The Pacific is a learning/cruising cat rather than a race cat. It is essentially an F18 without the daggerboards and a more forgiving rig. But saying that it is still fast enough to give you a big thrill when cruising but if you ever want to take it to an event you won't find any others to race against. It is going to be slightly more robust than the others in terms of dents etc.
OK, so to try and answer your question.
Both the Nacra and the Hurricane handle very well. Both are prob the same for durability. Not many Hurricanes are made any more but there are more on the water in the UK.
If you are thinking of the pacific, you need to realise that it is a much 'cut down' version of the Nacra or the Hurricane. But, it still has its place in the market and it might be for you.
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Posted By: DanW
Date Posted: 17 Feb 08 at 8:19pm
Worthy,
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my query. The more informed i become then the harder it seems to decide. They all have merits and seem to have a good case to answer. Plus my crew who is away in Afganistan is going halves with me and is trusting my decision making!
Does the fact that a nacra or similar f18/20 design is newer make that much difference compared to the older hurricane design?
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Posted By: Chew my RS
Date Posted: 18 Feb 08 at 9:13am
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Hi Dan,
I've sailed Hurricanes and Nacra 6s quite a lot in the past (before cats had kites). They are both nice boats and they are similar sizes and speeds (the Nacra is a fraction faster). The Hurricane has centreboards whereas the Nacra has daggerboards - the daggerboards give marginally better upwind performance, but are not so good if you are at risk of running aground. The Nacra is boomless, a little heavier (stronger?), has a slightly more modern hull shape (sort of wave piercing and the hulls are made in left and right hand halves rather than lower hull and deck joined on top - gives a gives a rounder deck edge) and has a forward beam that adds a bit of strength and means the jib is a bit bigger.
I think you would be happy with either, but would probably recommend the Hurricane. You will have a lot of fun in it, it will be easier to sell on (they are more numerous here) and the centreboards are more practical. Don't be put off by the fact it is a twenty year old design - it is still an excelelnt boat and it suits your needs much better than a F18.
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http://www.sailns14.org - http://www.sailns14.org - The ultimate family raceboat now available in the UK
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Posted By: English Dave
Date Posted: 18 Feb 08 at 9:39am
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Dan, I'm biased but can thoroughly recommend the Hurricane. Do try and get the SX version it is well worth it. Twin trapezing on a reach is a fantastic experirnce.
The Hurri is quite a heavy beast so don't even think of sailing one single handed. 26 stone is perfect for the boat. The boat has a lot of buoyancy in the bows and will give you a lot of warning before it pitchpoles. My first Hurricane was my first Cat and I found it quite easy to learn on - it is certainly less twitchy than the Dart18. The mainsail is of heavier construction than most comparable cats and lasts well. You can tow it flat while the F18 needs to be tilted or dismantled to fit on the roads. And they are available for not much money. Difficult to get more bang for the buck.
The Class is heavily centred in Essex but their TT series is UK-wide. A friendly bunch who enjoy their beer.
The Hobie Pacific is a bit of armchair ride compared to the other boats mentioned. You'll actually find that the racks are counter-productive after a while as with your crew weight you'll want to be on the wire rather than sitting on scafolding. And the lack of centre-boards means you can't drive the boat as hard down wind. Not for me I'm afraid.
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English Dave
http://www.ballyholme.com - Ballyholme Yacht Club
(You'd think I'd be better at it by now)
Hurricane 5.9 SX
RS700
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Posted By: Shadowman
Date Posted: 18 Feb 08 at 12:34pm
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Definitely buy a Hurricane. The Class Association and Andy Webb give huge support to newcomers which is great. The boat is very tough and well mannered to sail. You'll also find a decent boat in your budget.
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Posted By: scottish_tornad
Date Posted: 18 Feb 08 at 4:36pm
would second third and fourth the Hurricane had one before the T wish i could have kept it but not to be. They are great boats and take anything you can throw at them even the older ones can still be competative for the money you wish to spend you cant go wrong. Second the SX option too the kite gives makes the boat.
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tornado GBR389
www.dalgetybaysc.org/home.htm
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Posted By: merlinghnd
Date Posted: 18 Feb 08 at 7:58pm
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I am new to cat sailing and bought a Hobie Pacific for £5K with comfort wings last year and it is great. I sit on the wings, my wife goes out on the trapeze and its great fun. Maybe not as fast as the others but seems like a good place to start. Hulls are very buoyant compared to other cats so would be good for 26 stones easily. I look at this as a good way to get into cat sailing with the ability to take the family out.When I am ready and feeling flush maybe I might get another mean machine ( I saw the Tek Kat the other day, looked fantastic but ££££££). The other thing about aHobie Pacific is they seem to hold thier value so maybe a season on the Pacific, sell it on and get something else if you want to. I don't think you will be disappointed as a starting point.
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Posted By: Shadowman
Date Posted: 19 Feb 08 at 8:46am
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One further plus for the Hurri is that as they last for ever, there are lots of reasonably priced boats and the class seems to have established itself as an entry class at reasonable price for those seeking twin wiring performance cats. The result is a healthy second hand market so if it doesn't work out, your exit is not going to be too painful. In spite of the last post, Hobie Pacifics are rare beasts and you might have difficulty selling it if, as I suspect, you will quickly want more performance. You will note that all ex Hurri sailors love the boat to death and I would still be sailing mine but for my long term crew going abroad!
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Posted By: Catsrule
Date Posted: 10 Mar 08 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by English Dave
You can tow it flat while the F18 needs to be tilted or dismantled to fit on the roads. And they are available for not much money. Difficult to get more bang for the buck.
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Wrong boat you got there Dave!! F18s can be towed flat no problem at all, its Tornados that you have to dismantle.
Talking of Tornados you could look into them, yes they are more power full than the 5.9, but they are wider giving more leaverage, and they are also pretty easy to depower when it gets windy, also they're pretty hard to capsize as they're so long and wide. I only weigh 45kg, well i could be maybee 50kg now, and i crew on a tornado sport with a old guy who can't weigh that much, max i'd say 75kg, at Weston Sc, we're fine, we don't have a proper square top main though, we're light for the boat and have to depower earlier than everyone else, but you guys at 25 stone would be pretty good on a Tornado. They're great boats and easy to power up or de-power. Only problem is that you do have to dismantle to trail, but that dosen't take long.
Go to http://www.catamaran.co.uk - www.catamaran.co.uk and there's a load for sale on there.
CR
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There's no such thing as bad day on the water!!
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Posted By: English Dave
Date Posted: 10 Mar 08 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by Catsrule
Originally posted by English Dave
You can tow it flat while the F18 needs to be tilted or dismantled to fit on the roads. And they are available for not much money. Difficult to get more bang for the buck.
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Wrong boat you got there Dave!! F18s can be towed flat no problem at all, its Tornados that you have to dismantle.
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F18s can indeed be towed flat. I've seen it done many a time. But they are technically breaking the law. F18s are 2.6m wide while the UK max for towing is 2.3m (unless your towing vehicle is over 3.5 tonnes in which case 2.55m is allowed).
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English Dave
http://www.ballyholme.com - Ballyholme Yacht Club
(You'd think I'd be better at it by now)
Hurricane 5.9 SX
RS700
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Posted By: Shadowman
Date Posted: 04 Apr 08 at 3:13pm
Posted By: DanW
Date Posted: 05 Apr 08 at 3:48am
with all the pros and cons considered, ended up with a hobie pacific which im really chuffed with. the swaying factors included, boomless for my young son and the wings make him a bit more secure, my inexperience as i am still learning the ropes, my at present lack of interest in racing and its ability to be beached/its not to fragile. i can see myself stepping up in a couple of years to more performance but the boat that i found is fab. thanks for everyones input
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Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 05 Apr 08 at 5:56pm
Enjoy the seasons sailing. The best thing about boats is they can change hands easily and there are loads of options.
Once youve mastered the pacific, you can move up?
Where abouts are you as I think there is one at our club Marconi SC (Essex) home of the East Coast Piers Race (long distance)!!!
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Posted By: DanW
Date Posted: 12 Apr 08 at 4:33pm
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i'm based out of netley, havnt had a chance to see if there are any here, but looking forward to learning the tricks of the trade. moving up will be on the cards when weve got the job sorted. i'm loving the idea of the long distance races, good sail and social i should bet
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Posted By: Catsrule
Date Posted: 14 Apr 08 at 9:08pm
Netleys a nice club, i sail just up southampton water at weston sailing club, on my hurricane 4.9 and hobie dragoon. If you want a long distance race in the solent do the fast cat race around the solent, starts from weston, down to gillkicker, then to cowes then to hurst and home. I'll be looking for your sails when i'm racing!!
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There's no such thing as bad day on the water!!
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