Forget your "best 100m" speed. POM averaged 20.54 over 1Km !!!!!

kts over 1km!!!

and this is him doing it...

Originally posted by andy_cherub Over there the 12's beat good I14's around the track! Once in the know-how, 12's are actually pretty quick upwind!!!

Going off that GPS track quick isnt a word i would use for up wind!

And are you actually saying that the 12 is faster then the 14 round the course Andy??  

Aaaaaaargh!

Not this again!

Just go out and bl**dy well have a race, sort it out once and for all.

Thats the word from the other side of the world - yes. & personally I can say we are faster up and downwind than an I14 in sub 10 knots with our no1 rig. But the boats still very very new to us and we are still learning! At least now we can get it driving upwind!!!

So give it a couple of yrs til the UK fleet are upto speed, or wait a couple of years til those guys come over there den race them!!

Who gives a flying f**k about how fast a boat goes upwind. Going upwind is simply the trudgery needed to get to the top mark and have some fun!

A Bentley's a fast car for getting you from A to B, dut I don't see people buying them to "have fun" in.

I guess it's all down to your priorities. If you want something fast so you can get to the showers and bar first (and buy the round), get something long like a 49er (or actually an FD or Thames A rater), or actually just get a cat.

If you want to come in with a big grin on your face, sail something short and light.

As I say, it's all down to your priorites. Nobody's claiming that a 12 is the fastest boat at all times and in all conditions, but you have to admit that 20kts average over 1km is pretty impressive for any monohull.

These 12s' have still got to go nearly 50% faster to get as quick as andy's old cherub

HAHA! good answer Bob!

& my old cherub may be up for sale soon - if only I had some spare ££ id buy it! & that speed was only the max speed, it was before the days of........... ohhh top average over X distance, was like 4 yrs ago! lol!!! Still - havent been that fast since, ive been told im not pushing hard enough!! So this season will tell

I must be the most committed sailor in the world ever. According to Skiffybob (who must be right cos he sails a skiff and is therefore a member of the only sailing fraternity worth listening to - most of whom are around half my age and yet  know more than I could ever hope to), I've been sailing for the last 28 years without ever having had any fun at all! Why oh why do I bother? All that time I spent blasting round courses in my FD was clearly wasted cos it wasn't fun.

How did all you young skiffy types and Cherub types acquire such an enormous amount of knowledge and insight in so few years??

I think someone should do a survey.

What percentage of threads started on this forum end up as a discussion between the same people as to whether a cherub/12 or 14 is fastest upwind/downwind/round a course....................

Most of them I'd say.

I think the 600 is also awsome upwind.

Then try a 49er

well sailed canoe isnt much slower then a 9er up wind boys! Awesome fun for not allot of money! mine is going to be available in april i think if you fancy some cheap fun!

Andy,

Raced 12s in weymouth in sub 10 knots in a B5 and both 12's were comprehensively stuffed

END OF!

Yes that 12 was new in the country and new to the owners................... point being??

& for upwind - A class or cats in general!!

in my 12 we do abut 8-12 knots upwind from our gps mounted in the bow, but down wind 15-25 knots in almost any breezes from nice big to very scary 5th.

We did have a couple of races in sydney for the four skiff classes and the 14 started 5 min behind the 12 on a 1.5h race and at the end the top 14 (Peter Moor (pre I14)) had caught the top 12. But now the I14 is haeviier with less sail the are not so different.

I'm not sure downwind is what its all about.  Upwind at speed is a mystical experience, picking your way through waves, keeping the optimum height/speed balance, judging the conflicting power/point/heel parameters.  Then there is the whole tactical thing.  Surely effective upwind sailing requires a lot more judgement, is therefore more rewarding and what sailing is all about.  Just blasting fast offwind is for boards, cats and maybe waterskiers.

The reason I sail a boat which is fast downwind is to get down there quick so that I can work my way back upwind.  Having seen the speed Mark Goodchild and Simon Allen get going upwind I must say I could be tempted by a canoe.

it should not happen, its the water turbulating off the back of your foils. You need to sand one side of the back edge to make the back edges asymmetrical.

49ers do 11 to 13.5/14 (14 on flat water) in 15knots plus and we smoke 14's when we start easing main just look at the ovi inlands. The one race we could twin trapeze up the whole first beat we were miles ahead.

thats an impressive average, we have managed 18.5knots over a mile in the 49er and 19 over a km, but we can not get it to peak at over 23.1 at the moment. I wonder if the new rigs are faster

Ummm i'm sorry but i was at the ovi inlands and we would beat most of the 9er fleet round the winward mark (apart from the top boys) and downhill Bye bye!  and in 15 knots 9ers dont smoke a 14 down wind mate i'm sorry your just wrong or very very very good!

Anyway you should smoke us! Look at the PY difference 9ers wont beat many current rule 14's on handicap!

Ps i know why the foils hum but i can live with it! you know your flat and plaining when it does!

Think they will be as there is something like an extra 0.7m squared of sail and it will be a lot lighter. Just depends on if its a quick design I guess! I think they are phasing it in, with weight in the boats with the new rig.

I heard a rumour that the non CNC made boats wont be allowed to race with the new ones on the circuit in the future - I really hope this isnt true!

But Im all for the new 49er rig, think its a good thing - as long as its done properly and by what ive heard, over 4yrs and lead thats a good plan. Ultimatley the bigger rig and carbon mast will make it faster and more responsive - all of which is a big bonus!

 I hope not.. I thought it was just foils, to sail in Gold Class events you have to have the new CNC foils with the 49er ensignia on. I guess shouldn't matter too much because the people who campaign normally have new boats from their sponsor's anyway, just got to get the sponsors first!

I think its a great idea, as logn as they don't go on a psree and go for new carbon wings and everything they possibly can to make it more expensive for the little guys .

Not sure if it is 4 years, but its some time which i remember thinking yea some new rigs will tirckle down in that time.. 

Do you sail 49ers aswell?

I used to sail 49ers, then droped the campain for the 12. Still keep an eye on developments tho.

I hope the 49er doesnt go down the road some of the previous olympic boats went down, ie become just a sole olympic class as I think its a great boat for the "average joe" as its easy to go fast!

Oh well, time will tell!

If the dagger is asymmetrical then itll pull the boat sideways - like a gybing dagger board but with no control over it. The actual board itself "shouldnt" cause more drag than a turbulating board as the flows laminar. But dragging a 49er upwind sideways...................... thats where the drag may come in!

I just have my foils clean smooth and fair - does the job and we just get the wind as it 'whistles' through the rigging downwind, the higher the pitch the more apparent we are building!

i meant upwind not downwind...

the carbon rig will be available to buy in the UK in September, remember the new moulds are not CNC. They are making a master plug that is CNC and then making the moulds off that. What makes everyone think that the new boats will be faster... the new foils are slower in most conditions to a faired set of old foils (which most people did). They will make it so in the first year you can use both rigs but if you use a new rig you have to carry correctors (3.5kg) and then in the second year and onwards you have to use the new rig in Gold fleet. The new wings are not carbon and are being changed because it costs so much to make the old wings.

I can not wait for the new rig especialy as our first worlds with them is going to be in Garda!

p.s ours do not hum and we do not make the back edge asymmetrical but they do in finns

Jim, firstly those papers refer to hydrofoils. The singing from a hydrofoil vs the hum from a daggerboard are quite different. It even shows the vorticies from the foil! & vorticies = drag  (ill run a hydro stats on different foils and get figures for a faired vs non faired board  )

Where are these papers from? I tent to ignore non RINA based findings as ive come across so many which are just so wrong its funny!