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Americas Cup Fiasco...

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Keelboat classes
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URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3625
Printed Date: 11 May 25 at 2:59am
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Topic: Americas Cup Fiasco...
Posted By: laser4000
Subject: Americas Cup Fiasco...
Date Posted: 22 Nov 07 at 10:16pm
hmm looks like all of the RYA's wondering whether Perce, Ben et al could cope with going for beijing and doing team origin is gonna be irrelevent. Surely origin will have to fold/ or scale back dramatically its plans for next year. 

Old Ernesto has presided over what is a " http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=139251 - right royal f**k up " all because he wanted the lions share of the cash for themselves and to tile the playing field (shift the breeze?) significantly in their favour.

I'm not sure whats more incompetent - the ISAF decision for 2012 or the decisions of ACM post possibly the most exciting / interesting final they'd been in years.

And I thought it was only the FA that couldn't manage the proverbial piss-up in a brewery..

Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells..





Replies:
Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 23 Nov 07 at 6:15am

You seem to have swallowed GGYC's propaganda hook, line and sinker.

http://www.bymnews.com/news/newsDetails.php?id=18718 - http://www.bymnews.com/news/newsDetails.php?id=18718  has a more balanced view from Team Origin.

 



Posted By: Laser 173312
Date Posted: 23 Nov 07 at 8:58am

I agree it's Ernesto's fault. If he had not tried to create a club to be the COR none of this would of happened.

GGYC are American and are bound to chase any legal loop hole, it's part of their culture (if you can say America has a culture). The comments by Origin however are spot on. Once GGYC went to court Alinghi didn't want to know and used it as an excuse to delay things.

 



Posted By: FreshScum
Date Posted: 23 Nov 07 at 7:48pm
You think BYM News offers a balanced view? Sure, GGYC aren't the good guys, but if the court find in their favour, surely they're not the only bad guys either?


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 24 Nov 07 at 6:16am

The only people who really understand what's happened are a handful inside the Alighi and GGYC camps and they aren't saying. What they do say needs to be taken with a shaker-full of salt.

Pretty much everyone outside ACM/Alinghi agrees the ACM33 protocol was deeply flawed.

The Oracle/GGYC action was conducted in a way with no regard to the predicament of teams who needed to raise corporate sponsorship (which is everyone except Alinghi and BMW Oracle). Until recently BMWO did not have support of the other teams and did not appear to be acting in a way that indicated a desire to settle outside court.

Now we move into more speculative statements. The uncertainty appeared to be causing team's sponsorship arrangements to unravel and prevent other teams from entering. ACM apparently had financial committments to Valencia based on the number of teams entering. Hence is seems likely that ACM needed to take a realistic view of the number of teams who could compete versus those committments and decided to pull the plug for 2009.

Meanwhile, but too late, GGYC did gain support of other teams and did appear willing to settle - but quite possibly well aware at that point that Alinghi would not, and hence angling to be seen as the white-hats in the situation.

The way this has developed has quite possibly stunted the development of the AC as a corporate-sponsored event for many years to come. How on earth can teams request multi-million budgets out from companies when there is no guarantee the event is even going to happen or when? It's quite possible this was Larry Ellison's intention all along, since he is able and apparently willing to fund an AC campaign out of his own loose change.

I think the comments from Team Origin are spot-on and consistent with the interpretation of events I've put forward. I believe the intrangience of both ACM and GGYC has brought about the demise of what looked likely to be a fantastic event, with the first serious British team in decades.

 



Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 24 Nov 07 at 11:45am
There is long tradition in sport of using power, influence and authority in order to gain or maintain an advantage. Examples would be the way the English FA ensured that Scottish players were not available for Scotland's qualification campaign for the 1966 World Cup (that still rankles, the Scots would have beat the Sassenach's in the Final!) or the refusal of the big rugby nations to allow Argentina to participate in any meaningful competition.


Such gamesmanship has long been an intregral part of the America's Cup. At one time challengers had to sail to the USA, announce the challenging boat so long in advance that the Americans could build several new boats to develop a defender. The New York judiciary has long been an important actor in the ongoing saga of sports oldest trophy.

The Swiss tried to exploit their power to bias the competition in their favour, the Americans are using legal means to redress the balance. It's all part of the fun. we may well end up with 2 giant catamarans racing for the cup.

 The corporate sponsors will be back because the Cup is a fabulous opportunity to promote a corporate image.

Gordon


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Gordon


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 24 Nov 07 at 11:55am

Originally posted by gordon

 The corporate sponsors will be back because the Cup is a fabulous opportunity to promote a corporate image.

"Fabulous" compared to what?

Consider the VOR, which goes to great pains to ensure that sponsor's needs are met, including varying the port stopovers to match the core markets of team's sponsors.

Now consider the AC, which may or may not happen, at a date unknown, at a venue unknown, in a type of boat unknown.

So, Mr Marketing Director, where is your budget more likely to be spent? One thing business people tend to hate is uncertainty.

Louis Vuitton has decided the opportunity is resistable. So has Prada. UBS, which sponsored Alinghi, has announced it is as yet undecided.

Oh, and this fabulous catamaran spectacle, if it happens,  won't include a British team. Which, from my point of view, rather takes the gloss off things.



Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 24 Nov 07 at 12:33pm
VOR - boats disappear over the horizon, then reappear thousands of miles away. We see edited highlights.
AC - live broadcasts with a clearly identified winner.

The problem is not the event itself but the way Alinghi wants to organise it for their own benefit. Louis Vitton left because they refused Alinghis terms, as did Prada.

In view of the space given to sailing by British television I would assume that the UK market is very low down on any marketing directors priorities if they were thinking of getting involved in the AC. Which may explain the lack of British involvement. In France, for instance, sailing is the 3rd biggest TV sport... and they usually manage to get the finance to pay for a (usually unsuccesful, but that is another story). and Italy seemed to discover that sailing existed as a sport when "Il Moro" then Prada got involved.


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Gordon


Posted By: Graeme
Date Posted: 26 Nov 07 at 8:56am

It's boring.........the sailing is secondary to the legal wrangling. Who cares if it's not run, I for one won't miss it.



Posted By: CurlyBen
Date Posted: 03 Dec 07 at 12:49pm
How is http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=139302 - this going to affect things? Sounds like it's not good for anyone but BMW Oracle but I have to admit I don't fully understand the situation..

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RS800 GBR848
Weston SC


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 03 Dec 07 at 2:55pm

Originally posted by CurlyBen

How is http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=139302 - this going to affect things?

Short answer - nobody knows yet.

 



Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 04 Dec 07 at 4:04pm
The America's cup, from day 1 on, has been a way for very rich men to spend obscene amounts of money on their own personal playground while the rest of us look on in wonder/disgust/envy/pity - they care not which. It is nothing to do with it being a world championship (Ian Williams has just become match racing world champ, and he might not even get a ride, or want one) or even a challenge between nations. It is a challenge between individuals, with less rich companies jumping on the bandwagon if they can see a way of raising their profile and so becoming richer. So why worry about loosing sponsorship, when the whole thing has no more to do with world sport than World Wrestling Entertainment, who seem to  have plenty of backers.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 04 Dec 07 at 4:07pm
PS - doesn't men I'm not going to watch it all - the court battles are also a bit like the staged shouting matches that go on before steroid monsters hit each other over the head with folding chairs - great fun and entertaining, but nothing to get het up about.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: iwsmithuk
Date Posted: 04 Dec 07 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by Graeme

It's boring.........the sailing is secondary to the legal wrangling. Who cares if it's not run, I for one won't miss it.

Seconded.

Bloated obscene nonsense for spoilt playboys.



Posted By: ColH
Date Posted: 04 Dec 07 at 6:22pm

I've seen various reports on this row, but nothing that explains from step 1 what its all about.

Can anyone summarise in a sentence or two what the dispute is actually over?

Edit: ok, so I gather BMW Oracle believe they should be the Challenger Of Record, but what privileges does that title convey?



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Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 05 Dec 07 at 12:04pm
Basically, Alinghi created a yacht club in Spain to act as official challenger for the next AC. The Spanish yacht club didnt meet the requirements to be a challenger (in the eyes of GGYC and most of the sailing world). As Alinghi then became both challenger and defender they wrote the rules for the next cup.
GGYC won court case which means that they are now the official challenger and are therefore entitled to set the rules, and in the interests of trying to keep the AC going have suggested that the AC90 rule be used as it has been modified to thier approval.

I think that sums it up.


Posted By: catmandoo
Date Posted: 05 Dec 07 at 12:13pm

its worth bearring in mind that "rich men SPENDING obscene amounts of money " helps the world go round , its the ones that stuff it under their beds we should worry about .

 

The AC is a circus and as such we should enjoy the many facets of the spectacal , and for the lucky ones capitalise on the "rich mens spending ."



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Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 05 Dec 07 at 1:34pm

Originally posted by craiggo

GGYC won court case which means that they are now the official challenger and are therefore entitled to set the rules

It's far more complicated than that and I'm not going to write an essay but the challenger doesn't "set the rules". There is an interesting debate going on at SA on whether GGYC has shot themselves in the foot.



Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 06 Dec 07 at 12:24pm
Stefan,

Colh wanted a one paragraph explanation. It doesnt cover all the details otherwise it wouldnt meet Colh's request but it pretty much sums it up.



Posted By: Laser 173312
Date Posted: 07 Dec 07 at 9:27am

Supprising statement from GGYC that if they win 33rd cup in Valencia they would hold the 34th in Valencia not San Fransisco.

 




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