Twin trapeeze boats?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3563
Printed Date: 12 Jul 25 at 6:39pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Twin trapeeze boats?
Posted By: Splosh
Subject: Twin trapeeze boats?
Date Posted: 06 Nov 07 at 6:59pm
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Hi, Me and my Brother have decided to get a twin trapeeze boat which we can sail together. At the moment we're looking for assy's such as Boss', older int 14's, Spice's etc. I'm able to spend about a grand 'ish' on the boat (depending if i get another paperound etc) hense the type/age of boats were looking at. What do you guys recon would be the best for us... Me and my brother both weigh around 60-65kgs, can both comfortably sail 600's, 4000's, 300's ... bla bla bla. We will first learn to sail the boat at Alton water, then move it to a costal club - felixstowe probably. We definatly want something which will throw us in (we like to swim What do you reckon? Many thanks. Mark. p.s. If anyone knows of anything for sale like what were wanting, let me know. ------------- RS300 - 346 :D |
Replies:
Posted By: FireballNeil
Date Posted: 06 Nov 07 at 7:32pm
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Out of the three you mentioned, I would pick the BOSS because it looks best Thats my highly unprofessional opinion |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 06 Nov 07 at 7:50pm
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Neil is right here the boss is the best bet, we found them bullet proof and pretty quick especially with mast head kite conversion! Its a good platform to faster things and will bite back if you get to cocky! you will deffo pick one up for a grand as well! ------------- |
Posted By: andymck
Date Posted: 06 Nov 07 at 8:16pm
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If you are going to felixstowe, there are a few very experienced 5000 guys there, and you could probably get one for a grand, and indestructable. Felixtowe, how I miss the mixed grill, probably the best post sailing nosh on the planet. Andy
------------- Andy Mck |
Posted By: Splosh
Date Posted: 06 Nov 07 at 8:30pm
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Not so keen on a Bagged kite though. But it would be one step closer to a 18footer... Is there any other options worth a look, or is it just what i said earlier? ------------- RS300 - 346 :D |
Posted By: GBR884
Date Posted: 06 Nov 07 at 8:42pm
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I wouldn't say we are that comfortable in a 300!!
Does anyone know of any 5000's for sale?
Adam |
Posted By: Kudlinski
Date Posted: 06 Nov 07 at 9:04pm
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Im looking to sell my 5k, send me an email ( mailto:p_kudlinski@hotmail.com - p_kudlinski@hotmail.com ) and i can give you some info and pictures |
Posted By: ratface
Date Posted: 06 Nov 07 at 10:49pm
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probs get shot for this but... the spice isnt that bad a boat(for me anyway) its my entry into twin wire boating and there CERTAINLY is enough power in the rig to get you going, and has made me swim quite a few times, oh and its meant for lightweights, as i sail with roughly the same crew weight as you will be, less of a handle than a boss will be, oh and certainly easier than a 5tonner ------------- http://www.blym.org.uk/ - BLYM http://www.blym.org.uk/hydrs/index.htm - Hertfordshire Sailing team Uk-Cherub 2644 Laser 4000 -4089 |
Posted By: andymck
Date Posted: 06 Nov 07 at 11:08pm
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Plenty of people having lots of fun in penultimate 14's, which are cheap to buy, but not to crash. If you are thinking of an 18 in the long term i would go for the 5k, as you do need to learn the ways to get the kite in, which is easy once learnt. Though from experience an 18 out of felixstowe is not easy, wish they allowed cassette rudders would make all the difference. Andy Mck ------------- Andy Mck |
Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 12:30am
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I suspect the 5K and the Boss will be very difficult to pull back up after a capsize given your weight. There’s a 5K at my club and the guy who sails it says it eats crews like...a big crew eating thing, so be prepared for a workout! The spice seems to be a good option for you. OR try this happy little link http://www.sailingsource.com/cherub/test/doku.php/secondhand - http://www.sailingsource.com/cherub/test/doku.php/secondhand ------------- Ross If you can't carry it, don't sail it! |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 2:19am
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Arrgh! The Cherub supporters multiply faster than we can recycle our carbon footprints! ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC 
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Posted By: MikeBz
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 8:15am
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You're pretty light. You'll have a lot more fun in something small and light. A 5 tonner is a huge great heavy thing. A Boss is lighter but still a great big thing. Don't get over-excited and shoot your grand on the first thing you go to see. Mike |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 8:19am
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Well if you want a Boss you will have to act quick if you find a reasonably priced used one they don't hang arround! They arnt a major issue to right if you capsize, and will eat a 5k for breakfast! ------------- |
Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 8:41am
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It will eat 5k's
There's going to be a few at Grafham in the next few weeks come and see if you eat them ! ------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 8:52am
If you can't beat them...  ------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: MpHarris
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 9:37am
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In this case saving a few pennies and trying to get a twin string cherub is actually quite a good option. The combined weight of the crews (120-130kgs) is too light to learn twin wiring in the boss or 5tonner, that leaves the cherub or spice. You could even setup twin strings on a 97 rules boat, you won't be able to twin wire as often as in an 05 one but anything over a 3/4 should be twinnable. Best bit of advice, try before you buy and don't rush and buy a dog (in the nasty boat sense not the cherub design). I went out bought an old 505 spent a season with it keep breaking and then got rid and went for the cherub i should have got in the first place... ------------- Cherub 2663 "Sweet Dreams" RS400 451 "IceBerg" |
Posted By: olly_love
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 10:16am
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i used to sail my i14 from felixstowe as well as a arange of other things. i would personally get somthing like a 5000 cause u will need the power to get against the tide. ------------- TWO FRANK-Hunter Impala |
Posted By: MpHarris
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 10:48am
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well theoretically . . . . . ------------- Cherub 2663 "Sweet Dreams" RS400 451 "IceBerg" |
Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 11:04am
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An older int 14 would be a good choice and is a smaller and lighter than the boss/5000 with lower sheet loads. The rig is pretty easy to depower so I think you would be OK weight wise based on my experience sailing mine. If you are OK sailing 600s etc. then I would not bother with the Spice since you will outgrow it quickly. |
Posted By: stuarthop
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 1:51pm
spice Cherub I say------------- |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 4:12pm
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Might have given them away... ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC
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Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 4:17pm
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heard from sources that do have a clue, I belive around sixty Spices were sold, of which 30 went to people like Sunsail etc. |
Posted By: ratface
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 4:47pm
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seen as there is such hatred of the Spice and as its a dead class with only 60 boats ever made... anyone reckon i could put racks on it for the bonkers windy days? oh and a mast head kite  all that said, went out sailing it earlier today and was creating a wake... YES a spice creating a wake, in which a laser was able to surf, oh and downwind the powerboat was only just able to keep up on one of our kite runs  and all this in 15knts of breeze ------------- http://www.blym.org.uk/ - BLYM http://www.blym.org.uk/hydrs/index.htm - Hertfordshire Sailing team Uk-Cherub 2644 Laser 4000 -4089 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 4:51pm
Actually that's one of the things that's wrong with it... The fact that it creates a huge wake on which a Laser can surf... |
Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 5:46pm
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So you wern't planing, you were just BARGing through the water ------------- Ross If you can't carry it, don't sail it! |
Posted By: MpHarris
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 5:50pm
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in that case i'd suggest you get a better powerboat or perhaps put some fuel in so people don't have to row it? ------------- Cherub 2663 "Sweet Dreams" RS400 451 "IceBerg" |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 5:53pm
Ok then we were thinking about doing the Grafham Asy winter series, bear in mind that the 5k has to beat us on handicap! Hmmm a 15 year old laser skiff against the latest design international 14 no brainer mate!We used to sail a Boss and the 5k was loads slower then that! ------------- |
Posted By: ratface
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 5:56pm
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its already a 'planning' 15hp powerboat tho and Ross fancy a drag race? (only if wind is above the teens) i can get myself to King George sometime ------------- http://www.blym.org.uk/ - BLYM http://www.blym.org.uk/hydrs/index.htm - Hertfordshire Sailing team Uk-Cherub 2644 Laser 4000 -4089 |
Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 6:17pm
I do, but bare in mind I only have small sails and my chuerb is 27 years old! And I have only managed to gybe it 2 or 3 times sucsessfully  We were still pacing furballs the other week. ------------- Ross If you can't carry it, don't sail it! |
Posted By: ratface
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 6:23pm
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oh then 20-25knts of breeze and you can be windward if ya want
------------- http://www.blym.org.uk/ - BLYM http://www.blym.org.uk/hydrs/index.htm - Hertfordshire Sailing team Uk-Cherub 2644 Laser 4000 -4089 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 6:27pm
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One of my happier memories of Flat Stanley was at Weston in the 80s, when the handicap was in the 1030ish region: this was pole kite days. It was the Easter pursuit race, and at the top of a long reach FS picked up a big gust, and proceeded to hurtle down the reach at I guess something approaching 20knots, doubling and more the distance between them and boats behind. Two guys standing alongside me turned round in disgust and said: "Oh well, that's it: the Cherub's won."
Once Ross gets up to speed in the boat, which takes most folk a season or so, you don't want to get in a downwind drag race with FS in 20knots! |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 6:52pm
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i do! ------------- |
Posted By: ratface
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 6:57pm
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i CERTAINLY DO maybe we should add some gybes marks in aswell Ross and Jim it all be a bit of fun... whoever wins wins and im sure it acts differently with the assymetric kite than the pole kite ------------- http://www.blym.org.uk/ - BLYM http://www.blym.org.uk/hydrs/index.htm - Hertfordshire Sailing team Uk-Cherub 2644 Laser 4000 -4089 |
Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 10:04pm
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It does, but is also much bigger than the old pole kites! ------------- Ross If you can't carry it, don't sail it! |
Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 10:23pm
Well stop messing about... ...and go and buy an 18!!!!!!! ------------- RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed" Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
Posted By: GBR884
Date Posted: 08 Nov 07 at 6:16pm
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Whooooooo!! hold your horses. There is only two of us and we have never used a bag kite before. plus our lake is tiny so we wont be able to practice there before we sail on the sea!! Its only a matter of time though!! ------------- |
Posted By: andymck
Date Posted: 10 Nov 07 at 10:11pm
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Just dont sail an 18 at Felixstowe, closest I have come to needing the RNLI!!, but any boat would have had problems withe the standing waves that day. Cassette rudder would have helped.
Andy
------------- Andy Mck |
Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 12 Nov 07 at 9:37pm
I sailed the 5k for 8 years (as people on here will say I've said before! I'm confused they made it quicker, yet the py is slower?? oh and where did the I14 come into it? Still we'll just sail the 49er against the I14 and leave the other 5k's to see if they can beat the boss! ------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
) to make it quicker. But checking the py of them the Boss is 847 and the 5k is 846??? Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 20 Nov 07 at 9:57am
PY counts for nothing i'm affraid especially on dead classes such as the 5k and boss! If you are going on PY the race us in the 14 with your 5k because we sail off 850!! And yeah we will give you a go in the 14 against the 9er! just as long as it aint as gusty as last week at Grafham! "There's going to be a few at Grafham in the next few weeks come and see if you eat them ! ------------- |
your original statement reads 
" Well i havnt sailed a Boss for some time and i presumed you meant in the 14! After all the 5tonner is quicker then us on PYPosted By: RyanV49er
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 3:35pm
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So what do you think would win between a 49er and your i14? And lets talk truthfully, without the class patritism that we always seem to get! To be honest, I haven't a clue, as we rarely sail against anything other than 49ers. However, what I can say for sure is that after a few years, speed has nothing to with why people sail 49ers, it comes down to the amazingly high quality competition, which you can't get in none Olympic boats. (Not saying i14 competition isn't amazing, but you can't beat racing Olympic medalists) Check our blog out. We've just added on the water 49er footage, and a report from the 29er worlds in San Fran a few years back. www.visser49erracing.wordpress.com ------------- Online sailing: For when you just can't get to the club: http://visser49erracing.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/online-sailing/ - Visser49erracing |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 4:45pm
well, here's a theory, a bear in mind I've not sailed a 49er and the last time I i14'd was over 10yrs ago (but since when did actual knowledge stop someone on this forum from putting forward a view!) (rests one arm on bar for support (it's after 5.30 en France)) for me: i14 would have it over a 49er in any kind of waves upwind (hull shape, wings and t-foils) and in anything over 25knts I'd rather be in the i14. It gets more interesting on flat inland stuff and there I reckon the 49er has the edge upwind and it's probably going to be even downwind (i14 might shade it) but overall the 49er is probably faster. When the 49er came out, it was probably faster than the i14's across the board, except in a blow, but now, I'd say the i14 is the quicker machine, a bit more 'chuckable' especially in tight situations (i.e. pre-start) and would have the edge due to the t-foils, more tweakable rig and more sea-friendly hull shapes now out there. ... but what the heck, could be totally wrong! ------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 5:18pm
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Not much in it a 9er is quicker up wind downhill we are marginly quicker, on py the 9er doesnt stand much of a chance. Havn't sailed against a 9er with the new rig yet though! I think that may be a completly different convo! That is obviously with sailors of the same standard in the boat! As we all know there are some pretty handy sailors in the 9er class!!!!!! ------------- |
Posted By: Smight at BBSC
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 5:23pm
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I've heard there's a select handful ------------- RS600 988 |
Posted By: Splosh
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 5:33pm
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What about 49er vs. 800? my mate is about to buy a 49er and asked me to sail it with him(!
Splosh. ------------- RS300 - 346 :D |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 5:38pm
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49er easily! what do you mean the only otherfast boat is an 800 what about a 14?? ------------- |
Posted By: sailor_420
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 5:38pm
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49er.... ------------- |
Posted By: Smight at BBSC
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 5:39pm
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49er as long as the guys sailing it kept it upright, it would win by some way. The 9er has a lot more sail area and lots of leverage to act against the huge sails. ------------- RS600 988 |
Posted By: olly_love
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 5:41pm
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even a b14 would beat a 800 ------------- TWO FRANK-Hunter Impala |
Posted By: Splosh
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 5:44pm
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Well... we sail on as small resivour and not many big boats are there, mostly things like 600's/700's, 400's, toppers, lasers the fastest being a 800 & B14. Although there is one I14 that comes to alton rarely but never races. ------------- RS300 - 346 :D |
Posted By: olly_love
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 5:47pm
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if u cant sail a I14 alton water then u will never sail a 49er. at alton there were a few b14s sailing a few years back. didnt see much faster than that ------------- TWO FRANK-Hunter Impala |
Posted By: RyanV49er
Date Posted: 22 Nov 07 at 9:30am
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We trained from Lymington a few months ago, with some 800's. In about 10 knots of breeze we were fully wiring upwind, sailing past 800's who were crouching on the wing. 49er is way more powerful than the 800, so it's no contest really. To be honest, I wouldn't sail anything else. ------------- Online sailing: For when you just can't get to the club: http://visser49erracing.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/online-sailing/ - Visser49erracing |
Posted By: bovlike
Date Posted: 22 Nov 07 at 10:05am
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800s dont come close to a i14 or a 49er
end of discussion
------------- Ian (Bov) Turnbull 18ft Skiff Ronstan UK http://www.ianturnbullmarine.co.uk - Chandlery, tapered ropes and specialist solutions for sailors who demand the best - BovBoats.co.uk |
Posted By: RyanV49er
Date Posted: 22 Nov 07 at 10:10am
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It shouldn't come down to speed though. My point was that the 49er gets you wiring far quicker, and is therefore more enjoyable to sail. (in my opinion) ------------- Online sailing: For when you just can't get to the club: http://visser49erracing.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/online-sailing/ - Visser49erracing |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 22 Nov 07 at 3:44pm
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Well you'll be twin wiring in a 14 before a 9er! Speed is omportant otherwise we would all be sailing 200's! ------------- |