Assymetric 'luffing' on a run.
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2967
Printed Date: 25 Jun 25 at 7:10am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Assymetric 'luffing' on a run.
Posted By: Matt Jackson
Subject: Assymetric 'luffing' on a run.
Date Posted: 15 May 07 at 10:59pm
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Last weekend I frequently found myself getting caught up with RS200s on a run and was never sure of rights of way, maybe you could help. We were doing a windward/leeward series.On the run I was heading straight for the leeward mark and the RS200 were gybing downwind (we were fairly closely matched so the same thing occurred lots of times) and kept coming from behind and below and trying to push me up. I know that a boat overtaking to leeward cannot luff me but in this case we were all sailing our proper course and not altering it. Do I need to give way? ------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 15 May 07 at 11:51pm
This is the crucial rule...
usually when an asymmettric boat comes up under a straight running boat the overlap is established long before the boats are within two boat lengths, so there are no limitations on luffing at all. But in any case the asymettric boat is allowed to sail its normal hot angle, and you have to point up to its angle. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 16 May 07 at 8:12am
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I agree with Jim. An overtaking boat can only luff to it's 'proper course' (which is subjective at the best of times). The simple rule is to spot them coming and try to ensure that they can go past on their 'hot' angles with little or no interference to you. Either soaking low and going behind them or pointing up and getting an extra burst of speed should help. What really annoys then is when a boat in an unstayed rig goes 'by the lee' and prevents then from gybing, they get awfully upset....  ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 16 May 07 at 10:20am
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Oh thats my favourite, by the lee down a wave call starboard watch the look of confusion on the face of the stayed boat running on port...mwuhhh haa haaa also extremelly handy for causing consternation at bottom marks, learn them rules folks!! ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 16 May 07 at 11:46am
That isn't quite what I said. Usually the overlap gets established when the Asymettric boat is way down to leeward. If the overlap starts when the asymettric boat is more then two boat lengths to leeward, then there are no limits at all and they can luff the other boat as hard as they like, limited only by the requirement to give the windward boat oportunity to keep clear. So in most cases proper course isn't a limitation. Its usually only an issue if the windward boat is almost completely ahead of the leeward boat or if the boats are sailing very similar angles anyway, such as on a broad reach rather than a dead run. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 16 May 07 at 4:35pm
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If the Asymmetric boat is gybing down wind, the "normal" boat just has to predict things so as not to get caught out. The problem that can happen in gusty conditions is that an asymmetric bearing off in a gust could be sailing her proper course and go lower and to leeward of you. Once the gust dies, the proper course of the asymmetric then becomes higher. She isn't luffing because she is still sailing her proper course, so is she allowed to harden up to keep the kite filling, and so force the "normal" boat to change course? ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 23 May 07 at 7:53am
| When this happens to me i politely but firmly tell the helm of the assy that if he really wants to remain in my dirty wind for the next 20 or 30 boat lengths fine, but otherwise it would greatly benefit both of us if he planned ahead and went behind. Most good assymetric sailors will do this anyway without the need to be told. |
Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 23 May 07 at 8:45am
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What you sailing to go that fast down wind? I'm usually thru/past other boats (49er and a few quick mono's excepted) in a couple of boat lengths. ------------- Wanna learn to Ski - PM me.. |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 23 May 07 at 10:42am
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A Merlin. Things like 49ers will generally avoid trouble anyway becasue they are so much faster than symetric boats. It's 200s, 400s and boats which are not all that much faster than you that are a problem, or of course in light winds then the assys are slower. But good sailors will genrally avoid trouble. It all very well being on starboard or having right of way but it's no good to you if you end up losing out as a result of using your right of way. It's often better to let them go their way and you go yours unless of course you're having a ding dong up the last beat or run or coming into a mark. |
Posted By: redders
Date Posted: 23 May 07 at 11:26am
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But you are still windward boat and he has the right of way. Do you realy want to be held up by the assy whilst you argue about it ? Also consider that if the assy tries to go behind as you are suggesting and he gets a gust he may well end up sat in your lap! Not fast When both boats are assy and one is soaking and one hotting it up, which is the proper course? All very subjective but windward boat must still give way. ------------- The older I get the faster I was! |
Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 23 May 07 at 11:31am
Which ever can justify to a protest Ctte is the proper course, but as said, windward boat beware..... ------------- Wanna learn to Ski - PM me.. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 23 May 07 at 11:36am
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Proper course is in the absence of other boats so... As long as the assy boat is following the course they would normally follow then in thery they should win (windward boat beware as SS says). However.... a good helm would want to avoid getting tangled up with other boats so in most cases discretion would be the better part of valour and they would probably lose less time but pointing up and going behind. Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Calum_Reid
Date Posted: 23 May 07 at 11:37am
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They are both sailing there propper course. Your proper course is the course that you would sail if there were no other boats in your way.
Note: Not an exact defenition but thats basicly what it means. I will give a more detailed explanation of all thats been said later but im busy revising at the moment. ------------- 
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