I was protested by 2 x 14 year olds and lost. I am now scarred for life. Did they gat an advantage because they were youngsters - I doubt it in this case but I could see it happen.

At our club we use the RYA racing charter which is a much less formal way of dealing with incidents.

Either way I think representation should be allowed for everyone.

Yeah but you have to work out if the kid even knew the rules at all... If its normal club racing not all of the adults know the rules let alone kids that are there jsut having fun...

I know some squad type kids seem to know everything and can get the adults taken out but if its someones first time unless they have had some kind of coahcing they could be well out there in the right and still loose because they dont know what it is they have to prove the ohter boat did/didnt do.
And its not the jurys job to coax the correct information out of them, if the facts seem clear to them then is good.

I think that in the case of kids who are just generaly out there hvaing a good time and get protested the clubs aught to get a knowledgable sailor (preferably impartial) to just talk the incident through with the kid and say well this is what the rule says/means then at least they go in with some form of even footing...

I doubt if anyone would have objected if the child had someone to help or represent them. AC skippers bring a lawyer or two along......

But really, protests are part of the sport. Consider it as an educational experience.

surely this is the best way for them to learn the rules then, whilst taking part in club racing with people they know protesting them and judging them? if they don't learn the rules at club level they never will.

I suspect in most clubs (certainly ours) the Protest committee is made up of knowledgeable impartial sailors from the club who do exactly that. and if the child is competent enough to take part in club racing surely it's about time they started learning the rules?

Totally agree. A youngster was protested for excessive pumping recently in our club.(He was the only one who made it anywhere against the tide!) . All his mates hung about at the club to support him and wait for the verdict. When he lost the protest, all the youngsters in club learned that excessive pumping was not acceptable

The protest achieved it's purpose  - good lesson learned for all of them.

There was only one protester ... the other 3 were the protest committee who would have been impartial so not really that intimidating.

I am guessing from your post that the parent of this child is not happy ???

I'd say it's good experience.

Yeah im not saying that the comities arent made up of people like that but i mean before they go into the protest, that way the protest can actual be had like a normal protest with out the comitty having to chime in and say "no but..."

I know eveyone should be learning the rules if they are sailing but for a kid (anyone infact) its more important to learn how to sail (and sail well) than to sit and learn rules which seem much more like school than sailing. give them the rules book and u will have lost the interest of all but the most dedicated and will have confused all but the cleverest... some times the best way is to learn through experience but does that mean that each learner has to be disqualifed the same number of times as there are rules to break....

That's what i meant  

Learning through experience is best yes, and rules and protests should be part of that experience in my view.

I've never sat down and read the rule book fully (except when I can't sleep) but have a handle on the most used ones by racing with other people and being in situations where they were needed.

I hope not, and as stated earlier, most "Experienced" club racers don't know them all anyway. I was just saying that sometimes it's healthy to have a protest so that the situation is clarified for all, including the children in the fleet.

I think this is perfectly fair, when i was 12ish (a hardcore oppy sailor) i won a protest for redress against an international juror. That was a scary protest but it was all good practise for the future

When I was 15, in my first serious race, I called for rights I didn't have (as it turned out) on some old blokes (aged about 19). They responded by yelling 'protest' at me very loudly.

They didn't protest as it happened, but it sure made me go home and look up my 'Elvstrom Explains...'

If the sport is to continue at a respectable level then we need to encourage rule observance.. part of that should be what happens when it all goes horribly wrong..

From personal experience I see lots of effort going into the sailing part but getting young sailors learning the rules is limited to windward leeward, port starboard and water at the mark.

Protesting is a good way for people to learn, it doesn't need to be, and shouldn't be confrontational.. and any good club protest committee would I hope then discuss the rules with the offenders, we certainly do when it occurs. 

Much better to do this and learn in a friendly club environment than at a Nationals.....

Lets face it, at junior football you can't get away with not knowing the offside rule and then acting upset when the ref steps in..

One way that my old club used to do (still do) was that within racing the boats would be split into gold/silver/bronze for evening races and last race on a sunday.  B - 1st season/new racer etc.  S - season or 2 done, won the bronze fleet.  G - experienced racer/won the silver fleet.  You were not allowed to shout at anyone in the fleet below you (Bronze had own start but gold and silver together) so if anyone broke rules it was more like coaching with more experienced person explaining what was wrong etc rather than agressive rule shouting/protests etc.

Seemed to work very well, gave new people a more relaxed environment to learn and everyone learnt the rules at all levels.

Spliting it up seems a good idea. Only last week me (14yrs old in a vortex) and my bro (15yrs old in a rs600) got a well big shouting at by a man blaze !!! He threatend to crash into are boats and couldnt stop cursing! we gave in as are boats are worth alot to us and let him pass. At the end we asked what he was playing at...he apparently got his left (port!) and right (starboard!) muddled up?!?!

On a funny note, one way some sailors get passed the learners (in oppies) at alton is to shout "card board" at them; and try to sound powerfull. They apparently get out your way fairly quickly because they don't know what it means and its 'so they say' not illegal as it doesnt mean anything; and it avoids a protest.

mark

By the way i'm not the one who done it, it was a dart sailor at alton water who told the stories!! He only shouted it to the kids on the corse who wernt racing so they cant protest anyway. At alton it is apparently only freindly racing so you have to pay £5 to protest!

mark

Wow, you learn some thing new every day! I better tell him next time i see him!! U sound like a human rule book... are u? im not so sure if i'd wan to race you as i will probably have non stop rules and protests coming my way lol.

mark

Blimin annoying when people don't turn up to protest hearings.  I have protested twice in my life.  Both incidents involved major hull damage to my boat and neither person turned up.

I won both protests - in the first one I had a witness and it was a port starboard collision. 

In the second one it was a bit harder as I didn't say protest (I was underwater with other persons mainsheet round my neck) but the jury boat saw the end result - witnesses don't get much better.  Also incident happened just after finish line but I needed redress for next race as boat not sailable and PC told me I had to win a protest before I would get that

Surely