Strictly, the X332 isn't an OD.

Sigma/33 ,Sigma/38 or how about a J/80 and use the money you save to sleep in a hotel? Really, the OD scene is livelier at the smaller "non-sleeper" end.

I've raced Sigma 33's and they would defo fit the bill.  There's a good fleet on the clyde and some really competitive racing.  Normally a good fleet at Scottish Series / West Highland Week, and when I was at Cork for the nationals there were 70!  A few years ago now right enough.

Other option is the First 30.7.  There are several of them racing the Scottish circuit, and they are virtually a OD.  Also a bit more modern than a Sigma.

hi there.

First 30.7  possibly you mean First 31.7.

If so, then they are not 'strictly' one-design. 

Sailing last summer,  I watched the fleet racing where I sailed.  For  the size  OD  boat you're looking for  a Sigma 33 would be great.  These are definitely one-design. - sails/mast/keels/hulls  are the same.

Also a good cruising boat if you're not racing.

31.7s  can have different sails for definite and I believe also they can be fitted with  different  keels,.   so they don't  'really' qualify as one-design.    (don't know if they have different masts) Thet are certainly a more modern boat.  Possibly more popular but also more expensive.

If you can afford a 31.7 also have a look at elan333 -  nice boat,  sail well, but aren't OD.

/f.

What about the X 332? Where are the fleets?

The bloke can easy jet to the south and comes from somewhere south of brum anway

I see the sigma clyde fleet is way down, with dublin bay buying some of the boats. getting pretty tired the well raced examples now, even some of the later builds.

There isn't much in the way of an X332 fleet any more. The have a Solent-based nationals. There was a Cowes Week class with just 8 entries so I wouldn't count on their having one in 2007. 4 boats in the Hamble Winter Series, whereas 4-5 years ago they were in the high teens. There are also a small number on the E coast but no fleet racing AFAIK.

Yeah, I think I did mean the first 31.7.  They look like really nice boats.  I haven't seen down stairs on one, but I imagine they are fairly spacious since they're a modern shape.  Easy as comfortable as a slightly larger but older design.  They also seem to sail well and they are certainly quick.  We sailed against some at Scottish Series in a 33.5ft boat and struggled to stay ahead. Re. the OD status you're right they do allow diff. sail, spar manufacturers etc. but that isn't unusual really.

The X332's also look nice and maybe there are some deals on second hand ones if the fleets are dropping off?  Look really sweet with kevlar sails etc.

I have to kind of echo your point on the sigma 33, but there seems a destinct lack of one design above 29 ft for the average pocket.

I think the 333/332 possible one design development at the time of introduction split many owners out of X99s, sigmas, contessa 32s etc.

Otherwise it all got so dear that they are in SBs.

any opinions?

Have you ever been an owner, Freddie? Or have you ever regularly organised crew on a bigger boat? X332 = crew of eight to be competitive. Finding seven other people every time you want to sail becomes a chore very quickly.

Compare that with an SB3, or even a J//80 or 707. Less money, less hassle, bigger fleet racing, fast responsive boats. Spend some of the money you save on hotels instead of sleeping on the boat. Why do you want a boat with beds in order to race W/L or round the cans, which is what most people want these days? Want to cruise once or twice a year? Charter a boat somewhere sunny.

I know plenty of people who own sportsboats not because they can't afford bigger but because they have been there, done that and don't want the hassle anymore.

One design keelboat in Scotland? On the Clyde? That usually means "I'll have one design and you have another". With the honourable exceptions of sigma 33's, snotties and bits of the Forth it just doesn't happen up here.

Don't know why really. The Clyde was really big on one design classes donkeys ago.

From your original message:

"....X332 would be in price range (up to £80k syndicate)"

Sigma's  are going fairly reasonable price - I think between  £25-40K is typical for a 2nd hand boat.  Even if you get an old boat,  so long as you've got new sails, I don't think there's much difference in performance.  Same spars, same sailmaker ! Can't beat it -  otherwise as previously suggested go for smaller boats -  SB3 1720, soling.... whatever  for truer OD racing. 

If based in  Aberdeen,  Sigma could be a good boat - I would think it be more sea-worthy than the lighter and modern 31.7's.   certainly if you're cruising. 

BTW - there's an race this summer that could be of interest to you :  Royal Forth YC  -  Orkney Race  (Granton to Lerwick)  Race

http://www.rfyc.org/download.html - http://www.rfyc.org/download.html   (7th  June).

The trouble with sigmas is that they are dying out and anyway I wouldn't advise anyone to sail one competitevly-personally. I worked my way "up" to main and 2nd helm on a couple of 33s in my apprenticeship and god they are uncomfortable and boring to helm. Good racing when there were more than 10 out and clyde boats were very good ten years ago.

I take your observation stefan- the movement seems to be to SBs- which is good for the sport IMHO.

I think he/she (couple) are pretty open minded and minted to an extent more than comfortable so where they sail is not restricted to scotland.

not half!

 clyde did offer in 1994/5/6 seasons- etchells (small numbers but OD none the less), sonatas, pipers/LLs/garelochs, flying fifteens, 1720s, Europe 8ms,  sonatas, sigma 33s and a couple of starts at least for sigma 38s and impalas.

I think people went check book racing and looking for "cruising potential" i.e. devil IRC / CYCA handicaps to get a look in over the usual suspects in OD.

All this "cruising potential" rubbish- no delivery more comfortable than 50mph up the M6!!

For once, Freddie and I can agree. I helmed S/33s offshore quite a lot at one time and the helming position seemed expressly designed to damage your back. Downwind, when a puff hits, they just heel a bit more. The closest you get to excitement is when they threaten to death roll, which they are liable to do running in a breeze. They provided good OD racing in their day but I wouldn't care to sail one today. 

Sigma 33 -  helm/mainsheet -  it's a bit cramped at the back of that small cockpit - but that's a reflection of the boats  age and design.

the topic is,  OD racing in yachts in which you could sleep  aboard. 

I don't think there's another class that actually caters for that.    31.7s are OD,  X332s possibly are but are still pricy,  apart from that I don't think there's anything else apart from sigma38s!    

Yachts of  that size,  you otherwise have to race under IRC...   

other alternatives-  go a bit smaller -

• J24 possibly or
• melges
• impala
• sonta

you could always  race  folkboats -  there very competative - and I think they are strict about mesurements as well.  .   They accommodate crew,  sleep 3, 4 at a push... 

Fin..or H boats for that matter!

I may have to say that an SB3 and maybe a sigma 33 just for cruising and the odd coastal hack/RtI may be where I swing, although I do like Impalas.

Clyde Impala would be a good starting point though, to get their head round running a keel boat and not a fireball ---they have some good sailors again and may build up.

Anyone in agreement?

Coming into a leeward mark in the top third of the fleet at Cork week, on the one windy-ish day in 97, it was near carnage with everyone daring to go by the lee a little to avoid gybing onto port. Many hair raising broaches about.

The two boats I sailed on had both regular crew and lists which ran into the mid twenties in numbers! So yeah, I think the days of attracting people to something which is exciting are passed for the sm33

"".....or H boats for that matter!""

- good one,  nice looking boat.   something I would consider myself (but I just bought a dinghy - see different forum -  so not on the cards at the moment).  But Impalas might be worth the investigation.  I don't know how many of them there are these days.

I'd rather a Sigma 33 over an Impala for defo!  The Impala is pretty limited in comfort down stairs and is basically just a big Sonata.  There aren't really that many about in good shape either, as they have been out of production for a long time.  Interesting also that you think an Impala would be more exciting than a Sigma.  I think they are essentially just the same hull shape at a different scale, coming from the very same era.  You'd be better off getting a 1720 / SB3.  Much more like dinghy sailing and more exciting.  Either that of forget the OD racing and get stuck into IRC.

I've raced IRC at several events and it is very close and seems pretty fair (if you sail well then you do well!).  That way you're not so limited in type of boat and you can race in a big fleet.

both the impala and the sigma 36 are superior boats to the 33 in terms of helming and crewing.

What the impala lacks in interior comfort is made up for in the cockpit and deck which are a hek of a lot less bruising and uncomfy than the 33, which was always meant to be a sit in the cockpit channel racer and not a round-the-cans hike bitches racer!

The 33 had numbers and quality sailors but fleets are down except Dublin funnily enough.

I think stefans point about finding crew is to the point....an X332 needing 8 and in no big numbers anymore, plus an expensive sail wardrobe.....

Another thing in favour of the Impala, but some are pretty tatty and yes they aren't as well made as the very robust sigma 33- and it is better for offshore in the channel (fastnet 79 showed that)

Impalas are more broachy but the mast does bend with kicker! despite the lead shoe over the orignial design they will still luff very hard and stall if you are overcanvassed. Improvement on before- they would actually self-tack!