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Dinghy Sailing Magazine disappointments

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Multihulls
Forum Name: Dinghy multihulls
Forum Discription: For those who prefer two (or more) hulls to one!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2555
Printed Date: 29 Jun 25 at 10:44am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Dinghy Sailing Magazine disappointments
Posted By: Sprint Bob
Subject: Dinghy Sailing Magazine disappointments
Date Posted: 01 Jan 07 at 11:41am

Each year our Sprint 15 coverage in the Dinghy Sailing Magazine disappoints me and I suspect other Catamaran Classes might feel the same. This year their effort in "What Dinghy" is even more pathetic than normal. There is just one double page (18 & 19) devoted to Catamarans. There are 68 line entries (one per catamaran format) of which the Sprint 15 get just one line entry (we should get 2 one for Sport mode and the other for standard mode). Many of the 68 entries are for catamarans that you will never see in the UK let alone have others to race against. There is no indication of:
How many boats have been made or sold
How big the Class Association is
How Active the Class Association is
How many competitors attended the Nationals
What/how many Open Meetings are organised
If training courses are available,
etc, etc.
Thus despite the fact that the Sprint 15  and the Sprint 15 Sport are regularly both the 2nd & 3rd biggest catamaran fleet in the country based on National Championships attendance, TT meetings, number of boats sold in the UK, and almost any other criteria there is no guidance to advise the punter of these important metrics. Indeed the Sprint 15 is the natural "starter" catamaran in the UK for punters who have not sailed catamarans before.
To add salt in the wound they (DSM) even get much of the data entered in the wrong columns!
They have even omitted to include our Supplier & Builder  (Windsport and Collins Fibreglass) in the Builder & Supplier database on page 48.

Do other catamaran classes feel neglected by DSM?




Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 01 Jan 07 at 12:13pm
I'm sure the YY editors are delighted to hear about your complaints about the competition, but this is maybe not the right forum!


Posted By: laser47
Date Posted: 01 Jan 07 at 9:29pm
Not that the mods ever acctually look at the DSM forum - and it seems kinda dead nowadays

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Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 01 Jan 07 at 10:00pm
Most of these things are based on information given by the class associations....


Posted By: Jalani
Date Posted: 02 Jan 07 at 10:29am

Originally posted by Lukepiewalker

Most of these things are based on information given by the class associations....

That rather assumes that they get asked in the first place...... At least Y&Y do things properly and contact the association or builder for up-to-date info. DSM is not a magazine that has ever impressed me though and as already mentioned here, I'm sure the Y&Y team will be pleased to see such constructive criticism!



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Far too old to still be doing this......

Stealth F16s "White Rhino" GBR527 & "Yeah Baby" GBR538


Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 02 Jan 07 at 11:06am
Why don't you get together with other Cat Sailors and set up your own magazine, could be called "Catamaran Sailing Magazine" then you can review your Sprint in there!!



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Posted By: Shadowman
Date Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 2:16pm
Do we think that Y&Y's coverage of the cat scene is that good anyway? They have not covered any of the big Cat Opens in a special report for ages - nothing on Forts, Piers, GW. In fact they only seem to do the manufacturer led events these days in dinghies! Jeremy Evans seems to write more and more about either the elite squad sailors and big boat sailing and has clearly decided that turning up and reporting events is beneath him. I'm beginning to wonder whether the sub is worth paying!


Posted By: charlie1019
Date Posted: 17 Jan 07 at 10:26am
Personally I know many dinghy sailor who think Y and Y has gone a very similar way with the dinghy input and now  rarely buy it. Nearly £4 is a lot of money for a mag that you can read all the 'interesting' bits before you've even got to the front of the smith's que...


Posted By: HelenF
Date Posted: 17 Jan 07 at 12:51pm
Thanks for the feedback - always good to hear.
Check out the current (January 12) and next (January 26) issues. For cat
sailors there's a test of the TopCat and 'Magnificent Machines' which
features some radical multihulls, while if you're after multi-class dinghy
events there's full reports on the Bloody Mary and Grafham Grand Prix.
You might miss those bits if you just glance at it in the newsagents!

Cat sailors should also check out Hugh Styles' recent trapezing tips
series, with lots of cat-specific tips. Unless you think you've nothing to
learn from an Olympic Tornado sailor...


Posted By: Shadowman
Date Posted: 17 Jan 07 at 4:36pm
Helem - I still have a subscription but you have not really answered my criticism of why you no longer report major events. We had 196 competitors at Grafham with a numbber of seperate championships and you have not reported them bar the F18 Inlands in Clubs and classes - in spite of us getting reports to you. I don't remember seeing any coverage of the Piers race. Perhaps you could ask the Editor to explain why these key events among others in the UK Cat calendar aren't covered. I can remember when they were. IF any of the cat manufacturers took full page ads every week would that help?


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 17 Jan 07 at 4:43pm

Originally posted by HelenF

Thanks for the feedback - always good to hear.
Check out the current (January 12) and next (January 26) issues. For cat
sailors there's a test of the TopCat and 'Magnificent Machines' which
features some radical multihulls, while if you're after multi-class dinghy
events there's full reports on the Bloody Mary and Grafham Grand Prix.
You might miss those bits if you just glance at it in the newsagents!

Cat sailors should also check out Hugh Styles' recent trapezing tips
series, with lots of cat-specific tips. Unless you think you've nothing to
learn from an Olympic Tornado sailor...

 

Thing is Helen, the Bloody Mary does not allow Cats. 

I agree with Shadowman, Cat sailing is not getting the appropiate exposure IMO.  



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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..


Posted By: Canvey Pirate
Date Posted: 18 Jan 07 at 10:17am

I agree with shadowman that Y&Y and even Dinghy Mag do little in reporting grass roots of cat sailing. Even with Helen sarcasm and trapezing tips from Hugh Styles, which you already probably covered the year before the mag only wants to report the in fleets and the big budget manufactures. 

So to finish on Helen comments that we might miss bits while glansing at the newagents. I hate to say thats all you need to do if you are reading the multi section looking for grass roots cat sailing.

These are just my thoughts

 



Posted By: English Dave
Date Posted: 18 Jan 07 at 11:22am

What size of event do you need to have before Y&Y will give more than a cursory glance?

If we have 60+ boats at the Hurricane Europeans this summer, will Y&Y send someone to cover it or, better still, enter a boat? I know it's Northern Ireland but flights are cheap and, if it helps, I'll pick you up from the airport. Canvey is only 50/50 at the mo so you could borrow his boat. (Mark, the commute from Algeria to Canvey must be a cow-son).

Didn't catch the Hugh Styles article but I'm guessing that it went along the lines of "Crew lower than helm, trap high in medium winds and waves, low in a flat breeze. Forward upwind but move aft downwind to keep the trim. Crew and helm stand together to reduce windage." If there was more rocket science to it than that then I apologise.

To save the busy reader time in the newsagents here's the Ben Ainslie guide to hiking in full: "Lean out in the gusts."



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English Dave
http://www.ballyholme.com - Ballyholme Yacht Club

(You'd think I'd be better at it by now)

Hurricane 5.9 SX
RS700


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 18 Jan 07 at 11:36am
Originally posted by English Dave

What size of event do you need to have before Y&Y will give more than a cursory glance?

If we have 60+ boats at the Hurricane Europeans this summer, will Y&Y send someone to cover it or, better still, enter a boat? I know it's Northern Ireland but flights are cheap and, if it helps, I'll pick you up from the airport. Canvey is only 50/50 at the mo so you could borrow his boat. (Mark, the commute from Algeria to Canvey must be a cow-son).

Didn't catch the Hugh Styles article but I'm guessing that it went along the lines of "Crew lower than helm, trap high in medium winds and waves, low in a flat breeze. Forward upwind but move aft downwind to keep the trim. Crew and helm stand together to reduce windage." If there was more rocket science to it than that then I apologise.

To save the busy reader time in the newsagents here's the Ben Ainslie guide to hiking in full: "Lean out in the gusts."

 

I think I read that in a Magazine somewhere



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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..


Posted By: HelenF
Date Posted: 18 Jan 07 at 1:29pm
Bloody Mary was highligted in response to dinghy sailors wanting non
single-class event reports, not cat sailors!

As for whether we'll send someone to cover cat events — you'll notice
that we rarely 'send' people to cover any class regattas. Instead we need
some help from class associations and event organisers to submit Clubs
and Classes reports and keep us up to date with what's happening in their
season — the 2006 Racing Classes Review guide listed a massive 175
classes, there's no way we could keep on top of all them otherwise!

If you've got a big or anniversary event coming up, let us know — send us
an email (editorial@yachtsandyachting.com) letting us know when and
where and who to contact. Likewise, if you have some news that you think
our Multimad, Roll tacks, or other columnists should know about, let us
know and we'll pass it on. We WANT to hear from you!


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 18 Jan 07 at 1:36pm

Originally posted by HelenF

Bloody Mary was highligted in response to dinghy sailors wanting non
single-class event reports, not cat sailors!

As for whether we'll send someone to cover cat events — you'll notice
that we rarely 'send' people to cover any class regattas. Instead we need
some help from class associations and event organisers to submit Clubs
and Classes reports and keep us up to date with what's happening in their
season — the 2006 Racing Classes Review guide listed a massive 175
classes, there's no way we could keep on top of all them otherwise!

If you've got a big or anniversary event coming up, let us know — send us
an email (editorial@yachtsandyachting.com) letting us know when and
where and who to contact. Likewise, if you have some news that you think
our Multimad, Roll tacks, or other columnists should know about, let us
know and we'll pass it on. We WANT to hear from you!

 

THe thing is that we did send you umpteen reports (form the Grafham Cat open for example) that ended up on the Website, but never made it into the Mag - How did that happen ?



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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..


Posted By: Canvey Pirate
Date Posted: 18 Jan 07 at 1:59pm

Thats because you never took out a big advert.

I know our fleet use to send in reports all the time, but never really made the grade until we sent in a funny report from our own Major Eyeswater. Still makes me laugh today

 



Posted By: charlie1019
Date Posted: 18 Jan 07 at 2:09pm

Funnily enough I did read the bloody mary report in the que. But then put it back. As for the trapezing article: its one of those things that to get better at you need to be on the water not reading about it in the bar. Yes there may have been useful coments for some, but if you've read one of the articles on trapezing...

One of the articles I used to find interesting to read was the 'Dinghy Forum' written by both cat and dinghy sailors if I remember.



Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 18 Jan 07 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by charlie1019

One of the articles I used to find interesting to read was the 'Dinghy Forum' written by both cat and dinghy sailors if I remember.

Yes, Dinghy Forum was great, but my favourite bit of the mag was Pit Stop; I even used to save those pages - sad, I know...

 



Posted By: Shadowman
Date Posted: 18 Jan 07 at 5:36pm

Helen

Not only did we put umpteen reports from GWSC on the web site, we also emailed you before pointing out that the event was attracting a huge turn out and that there were about 5 championships being decided.

If you want an example about how you are not covering grass roots sailing, the revival of the A Class in the UK is striking and not seen that noted at all.

Can you tell us who writes your regular 3 page features with pics on RS nationals and equivalent if you don't send reporters to events ?  Notice you are happy enough to send an ex employee of the company in question  to write a report on its new holiday site.

If you really want the feedback and leave us with a warm feeling, then maybe your cat correspondent should post in response to these crits. Y&Y is undeniably the premier mag but I am clearly not alone in thinking that it is getting out of touch with its core readership.

 



Posted By: Gael
Date Posted: 21 Jan 07 at 6:28pm
Hi all

Firstly thank you for your comments, sorry I haven't responded earlier but
I didn't get a spare moment to look at the Forum the last week.

Just to answer a few key points raised here and to clear a few things up
with regarding to what we do:

1. Reports published in the magazine

All open meeting reports sent to club@yachtsandyachting.com on time
and to length are used both online and in the magazine. There is no
discrimination, just a minimum entry. The deadline to guarantee
inclusion is the Tuesday after the end of the event - although we are
pretty leniant particularly for big events and in quieter periods of the
season. No other magzine is printing these reports, but we feel it is
important despite the shift to reading news online. In order to continue
doing this we do need your continued support. Our Features Assistant
Dawn Hinsley lookes after the Clubs and Classes section in the magazine,
feel free to ring her in the office or email club@yachtsandyachting.com

2. Special features on events

We try to target a range of larger events over the year (no we don't send
reporters and that includes the RS events, we work with the class
associations to find someone who is going to put the piece together
which we edit) and welcome any suggestions, obviously every individual
class wants extra coverage so we can't feature everyone, but we can and
do react to any suggestions, email me or call me:
gael@yachtsandyachting.com or editorial@yachtsandyachting.com

3. Columns

We have a multihull-specific column in the magazine which sometimes
has our skiff and keelboat readers grumbling, the keelboat sailors getting
only an occasional column and the skiffs being covered in Roll Tacks
(previously named Pit Stop) which covers all the monohull dinghy classes
as well as club news. Your comments have been noted and passed on to
Jeremy Evanst. I don't claim to be a cat specialist - that's why we have a
specialist columnist.

4. We're not perfect but we are listening
Simply getting Y&Y out every fortnight is a huge task - 12 hour days are
not uncommon. I'm checking the forum on Sunday evening, that's how
much we care. Sailing is done in our own time, any events any of us
attend rely on us putting in a full day's work for evey day we are out to
keep up with the workload, and yet most of us are regularly at events at
weekends and spend most of our holiday sailing. We are completely
dedicated to try and give all our readers the best magazine possible, but
we do rely on your help, that is the only way it is at all possible.

Rest assured your comments are very much valued and have been noted,
keep talking to us and we will keep working to try and make Y&Y better
and better.

Gael Pawson

Editor, Yachts and Yachting


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If you're not smiling, do something about it :o)


Posted By: Jeremy Evans
Date Posted: 21 Jan 07 at 7:04pm
Hello
I am always hungry (more like ravenous) for cat material! Grass roots
included!
If you send Y&Y an email with relevant cat information, please always CC
it to jeremy.evans@zen.co.uk
If you have interesting news or a report, it is always handy to email me
and attach a high quality, high res image - one good action pic will
generally suffice
I'm particularly interested in things like A Class (which someone
mentioned) and cat developments among the existing well known classes
- for instance it would be great to hear more about what's new with the
Dart 18 and other classics. Also, info on tweaks and tuning is always
interesting, plus more about clubs that are pushing cats, the people who
organise big cat events, cat cruising and trips, catsailing abroad, plus
whatever else sounds good!
So I look forward to a monster response - email if you have queries
Jeremy Evans


Posted By: SoggyDoggie
Date Posted: 28 Jan 07 at 9:54pm

Originally posted by HelenF

Thanks for the feedback - always good to hear.
Check out the current (January 12) and next (January 26) issues.

Hi HelenF,

I'm with Sprint Bob on this. You will be pleased to learn that Bob has recommended the latest Y&Y issue on the UK Sprint 15 Association website.

It goes to show that if there is coverage on the most numerous single-handed cat in the UK, the members will buy the magazine. I have never purchased DSM, and I'm unlikely to do so, if I feel that I am not being catered for.

Soggy Doggie. 



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Soggy Doggie


Posted By: Sprint Bob
Date Posted: 29 Jan 07 at 5:14pm

Hi

I would like to applaud Y&Y for continuing to print race reports in it's magazine.  It is often the only way that some of the established classes get exposure in print. Sailors who have taken part in an event like to read about it after the event - particularly if their name is mentioned or if there is a picture. I know many sailors who buy the magazine to get a permanent record of their endeavours. The only possible complaint is the delay in printing the reports, sometimes. In 26 January issue there were 6 reports from the Grafham Cat Open which happened on 21/22 October - I don't know if they got forgotten about and were woken up by this forum - but it is fairly rare that things get missed out in my experience.

The Y&Y website is very fast and efficient in its reporting and has recently been much faster than our own class website in reporting our events. The only problem is that the web site is so popular that reports soon disappear off the top page and have to be searched out. It is well structured and grouped to collect class history as well as the future programme for the coming season.

Generally, it is my experience that catamarans are well covered in Y&Y (magazine and web site).  What has to be remembered is that for coverage to occur someone has to intitiate it. Generally, this is in the form of sending in an event report or some newsworthy item. If some catamaran classes are not getting proper coverage I suspect that they are not sending stuff in to Jeremy Evans or to Clubs and Classes.

Keep up the good work Y&Y. You get my vote.



Posted By: Doctor Clifford
Date Posted: 29 Jan 07 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by Jeremy Evans

Hello
So I look forward to a monster response



I've sent you a 'monster' email!

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regards
Dr. Clifford

take two tablets twice daily


Posted By: Gael
Date Posted: 29 Jan 07 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Sprint Bob

Hi


I would like to applaud Y&Y for continuing to print race reports in it's
magazine.  It is often the only way that some of the established classes
get exposure in print. Sailors who have taken part in an event like to read
about it after the event - particularly if their name is mentioned or if
there is a picture. I know many sailors who buy the magazine to get a
permanent record of their endeavours. The only possible complaint is the
delay in printing the reports, sometimes. In 26 January issue there were 6
reports from the Grafham Cat Open which happened on 21/22 October -
I don't know if they got forgotten about and were woken up by this forum
- but it is fairly rare that things get missed out in my experience.


The Y&Y website is very fast and efficient in its reporting and has
recently been much faster than our own class website in reporting our
events. The only problem is that the web site is so popular that reports
soon disappear off the top page and have to be searched out. It is well
structured and grouped to collect class history as well as the future
programme for the coming season.


Generally, it is my experience that catamarans are well covered in Y&Y
(magazine and web site).  What has to be remembered is that for
coverage to occur someone has to intitiate it. Generally, this is in the
form of sending in an event report or some newsworthy item. If some
catamaran classes are not getting proper coverage I suspect that they are
not sending stuff in to Jeremy Evans or to Clubs and Classes.


Keep up the good work Y&Y. You get my vote.



Thanks Sprint Bob – you will notice all ther reports in Club are from the
same period, they had not been forgotten or burried, we simply have had
far too many reports over the end period of the season and struggled for
space to fit them in, we have been slowly working our way through the
backlog.




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If you're not smiling, do something about it :o)



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