Catamaran Selection
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Multihulls
Forum Name: Dinghy multihulls
Forum Discription: For those who prefer two (or more) hulls to one!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2210
Printed Date: 28 Jun 25 at 8:00am Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Catamaran Selection
Posted By: lostatsea
Subject: Catamaran Selection
Date Posted: 15 Sep 06 at 9:06pm
Hi, I would be very grateful if anyone could advise about choice of catamaran. I have been sailing a Dart 16 with my wife and we are hooked on Catamarans but feel we would quickly outgrow this little cat (plus our combined weight is over 170Kg!). I am looking at the Dart Hawk or perhaps Spitfire Catamarans and would be very grateful for any feedback suggestions regarding choice etc. Which of these might be better?. Can you get spares easily etc. Also have looked at the Hurricane, is this as good as the others. Please help!!. Thanks
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Replies:
Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 15 Sep 06 at 9:32pm
Given your all up crew weight, I think the Hurricane would be the best bet.
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Posted By: lostatsea
Date Posted: 15 Sep 06 at 9:40pm
Thanks for your reply.Can't find much information on the Dart Hawk. Do they still make them and what is the suggested crew weight. I thought the Hawk might be a better cat being that it is a lot more modern than the Hurricane?.
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Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 15 Sep 06 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by lostatsea
Thanks for your reply.Can't find much information on the Dart Hawk. Do they still make them and what is the suggested crew weight. I thought the Hawk might be a better cat being that it is a lot more modern than the Hurricane?. |
Hawk is no longer made, it was the first one of the F18's.
I'd go for a Hurricane with the SX kit; or maybe one of the other 20 footers like the Nacra Inter 20.
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Posted By: lostatsea
Date Posted: 15 Sep 06 at 10:40pm
I think the Nacra inter 20 is too expensive and too complicated to rig up. I have seen a really good Hawk for reasonable cost but if you can't get parts then I guess its not such a good deal. Do you know if there is anywhere thatstill sells the bits. Thanks
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Posted By: Teamvmg
Date Posted: 15 Sep 06 at 10:52pm
All the spinny cats are pretty much the same to rig, infact the hawk is probably a bit more fiddly than the inter20. Go for the 20 super boat - easier to sail than an 18 - nice light mast too - spares easy to get.
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Posted By: lostatsea
Date Posted: 15 Sep 06 at 11:08pm
Thanks but the inter20 is out of my price league. My max spend is less than 4K. There are plenty of Dart 18's around for less than this but I thought the Hawk or spitfire might be better. Maybe I will have another look at the Hurricanes.
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Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 15 Sep 06 at 11:36pm
All the Spi cats are rigged the same way.
For 4K you can get a very good 5.9; Just make sure it has the newer bendy mast.
I would suggest you talk to Andy Webb.
Hurricane 5.9 website for sale list
http://www.hurricane59.com/forsale.php?id=forsale - http://www.hurricane59.com/forsale.php?id=forsale
------------- Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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Posted By: Dermot M
Date Posted: 16 Sep 06 at 12:30am
Originally posted by lostatsea
I think the Nacra inter 20 is too expensive and too complicated to rig up. I have seen a really good Hawk for reasonable cost but if you can't get parts then I guess its not such a good deal. Do you know if there is anywhere thatstill sells the bits. Thanks |
The Hawk was very well built and you will still get parts from White Formula. The main problem is that they did not have a chute, and unless the one you are looking at has had one fitted, it can become quite costly to bring it up to date. As well as the chute, you will need patches on the spinnaker - and the early spinnakers were not great anyway - so you could need a new one - It can all add up.
------------- Dermot
Shadow 075
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Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 16 Sep 06 at 1:59am
Originally posted by Dermot M
Originally posted by lostatsea
I think the Nacra inter 20 is too expensive and too complicated to rig up. I have seen a really good Hawk for reasonable cost but if you can't get parts then I guess its not such a good deal. Do you know if there is anywhere thatstill sells the bits. Thanks |
The Hawk was very well built and you will still get parts from White Formula. The main problem is that they did not have a chute, and unless the one you are looking at has had one fitted, it can become quite costly to bring it up to date. As well as the chute, you will need patches on the spinnaker - and the early spinnakers were not great anyway - so you could need a new one - It can all add up.
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Exactly, and you will be buying a boat with obsolete sails, I'd say buy a Hurricane SX, it will hold it's value too.
------------- Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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Posted By: lostatsea
Date Posted: 16 Sep 06 at 10:16am
Hi, thanks for all the input. The Hawk I am looking at has the Spinnaker Chute and self tacking jib plus two sets of sales, new trampoline etc so it looks quite good, however I see your point about the hurricanes. Are you saying it is impossible to get new sails for the Hawk?. I read a yachts and yachting review of the Hawk and it came out really good saying that it was poweful but forgiving and easy to sail. Does anyone know how the Hawk compares with the Hurricane?. All help if greatly appreciated.
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Posted By: Dermot M
Date Posted: 16 Sep 06 at 10:54am
I sailed the Hawk against Hurricanes for about 6 years, before I got the Spitfire. Some of the Hurricanes in those days had spinnakers, but not the SX kit, which performs really well and looks good also. Upwind the Hawk had the same speed, but pointed higher because of its daggerboards - especially as the wind strength rose. I think that it feels more responsive than the Hurricane - which seems to get into a grove and just drive along. (I have only sailed the Hurricane a few times). Because most of the Hurricanes did not have spinnakers then, we almost always beat them downwind. Having sailed against Tigers, (but not on one) I always felt that the Hawk was more forgiving. Many times I have seen Tigers pitchpoling close to me when I felt completely in control. The Hawk was not developed, because Laser (and Reg) did not think that, financially, it was worthwhile getting into a war with Hobie. I still think that an upgraded Hawk is a very good buy at that price, and a very cheap way of getting into F18. I would also say that if there is a Hurricane fleet at a Club near you, it is always best to sail the same cat as those around you. You will learn quicker. You probably are a bit heavy for the Spitfire.
P.S. There are still many Hawks in the UK and Holland. You can still get sails.
------------- Dermot
Shadow 075
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Posted By: lostatsea
Date Posted: 16 Sep 06 at 4:36pm
Thanks for your input. Had a look at the Hawk, it was in excellent condition, brand new tramp, new rigging, immaculate Mainsail plus a spare main that still looks fine. Also had trailer, big wheel launch, self tacking jib and two spinnakers with carbon chute, no damage to hulls either on top or underneath. Hence, against most peoples advice on here I ended up buying it. Hope I have done the right thing but it looked to good to leave there, plus the guy is going to give me some lessons on how to sail it. If anyone has any reviews or knows where there is any further information on the Dart Hawk I would ne grateful. Anyway thanks all.
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Posted By: Worthy
Date Posted: 16 Sep 06 at 5:54pm
Enjoy your new boat and hope to see you on the F18 circuit some time soon. Grafham cat open is on 21-22 October if you are interested.
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Posted By: Dermot M
Date Posted: 16 Sep 06 at 9:58pm
Congratulations I think that you will really enjoy your Hawk ! I moved to it from a Dart 18 and found it very controlable.
------------- Dermot
Shadow 075
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Posted By: lostatsea
Date Posted: 16 Sep 06 at 10:59pm
Don't think we will be up to competing at Grafton for a while yet!!. Just hope we can cope with the daggerboards. Anyone know what the PYN number is for the Dart hawk?. Funny but although it was manufactured by Laser/Dart they seem to have no mention of it on any of there web sites. I see you say the Hawk was dropped because they did not wan't a war with Hobie. Which hobie was it competing with? and was the Hobie that much better that Laser had to drop the Hawk?.
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Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 17 Sep 06 at 12:13am
Originally posted by lostatsea
Don't think we will be up to competing at Grafton for a while yet!!. Just hope we can cope with the daggerboards. Anyone know what the PYN number is for the Dart hawk?. Funny but although it was manufactured by Laser/Dart they seem to have no mention of it on any of there web sites. I see you say the Hawk was dropped because they did not wan't a war with Hobie. Which hobie was it competing with? and was the Hobie that much better that Laser had to drop the Hawk?.
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War was with the Hobie Tiger. The traditional Laser boats are all one designs, the Hawk fitted into the F18 rules and the F18 box rule has taken off big time. IMO Laser did not want to get into a "development" class and be forced to constantly pump more money (and time) into the design/development process.
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Posted By: Dermot M
Date Posted: 17 Sep 06 at 12:39am
Agree withSimon, Hobie were paying top sailors to sail the Tiger and Laser were not prepared to do same. PY for Hawk is same as Hurricane 5.9 - 691
------------- Dermot
Shadow 075
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Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE
Date Posted: 17 Sep 06 at 11:04am
Congrats on your F18 purchase..... DOn't be too worried about your weight, we are racing a Capricorn at 170.... We have trimmed dwon from 184.
Off the breeze in the light winds, the weight can hurt you a bit, but as the wind increases, your disadvantage reduces.
Also, if you are in the need of a good holiday, then Yeppoon Queesland (Australia) could be right up your alley ....... See below
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http://www.formula18alive.com - www.formula18alive.com
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